Thread: Whisperings

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

I was also wondering if the 'in pic' captions were better or worse. I wasn't sure if they were distracting or not.

Like simonl, I find the "in pic" captions (and arrows) to be really helpful.

I'm loving this thread, and it's detail. Keep up the good work.

Cheers, Vann.

Hi Phil,

Like the others I have enjoyed reading this thread, and share a degree of envy over your good fortune in being able to work in a place of such interest.

With regard the issue of set-ups and the ingenuity required sometimes to be able to take the small cut required, I have this small contribution to offer as something worthwhile for machining such oddities as come up in the maintenance field.

When I purchased my TOS 18S-VR Lathe (still in the process of refurbishment) it came very well equipped with many chucks and accessories, one of which I had never seen before in any workshop in which I have worked.

It is an angle plate top compound slide chuck (not certain if that description is accurate but you can see the picture below)

I suspect that it will get a fair bit of a workout in the years to come for those difficult to hold or centre items that need to be fixed.

As an aside I was one of those strange kids who was always pulling things apart and putting them together (usually) just to see what made them work. I was offered a working steam engine when aged thirteen, but my father declined on the basis that he wasn't certain that we could handle a single cylinder with an eight foot flywheel at our house in Perth; or the old complete 1926 C cab Chev truck that I could have had a year before; or .... you get the idea!

Again, thanks for sharing

Quentin


TOS !18S-VR Compound Slide Chuck.jpg

Thanks Quentin and Vann.
The compound slide for the headstock spindle certainly has potential although I have to admit I have never seen anything like it before.
I reckon we could all lament for hours on the stuff that got away

The lubricator I have been repairing is actually called a tallow pot and as suspected has never been a success using oil so it was decided to rob Peter to pay Paul and use the lubricator off another pump that is awaiting restoration, actually the next restoration on the list.
One of the valves in the suction nest had a suspect thread that holds the valve in position but nothing ventured, nothing gained (or in this case lost), I gave it a shot and lost. The valve got punched out of the thread twice. My only recourse was to salvage one of the old valves that fit a bit better. It's working so far .
I pulled the steam cylinder cover and water end (pseudo) cover to check the tightness of the piston nuts and all was well.
I lifted the lid on the water 'suction and discharge' valves for a final check then pulled the steam chest cover off and made sure nothing was out of order in there either. all was well.
I warmed the engine through and set it in motion.
She ran all day without missing a beat and capably filled both boilers under pressure.
I'm pretty happy...so far
A short vid on the old girl in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68rB...ature=youtu.be

Phil

I'm more than impressed with the ingenuity shown and the precision that goes into some of these setups. Something to aspire to. I had a good chuckle at the counter weight, there goes another good smithing hammer

I once used a large bearing case around 6" dia. as a spacer in a four jaw chuck being ground and parallel it was a great help in quickly setting up the piece offset from the face of the chuck. After setup I tried with a large mallet to knock the piece out. It wouldn't budge so I naively left it there, I didn't consider it not being 100% centred and the effect of centrifugal force. Needless to say it worked it self loose at high RPM took the tip off my left ear and put a rectangular hole in dads roof. I finished the job but didn't go near the lathe again for over a decade I was to gun shy of it.

Far from boring Phil. I loved watching it run. Great job.

Dean

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

Two great posts chambezio,
it is a bit of a dilemma generally with regard to the amount of young people putting their hand up to learn this type of work.
There is not a lot of call for it outside of places like us but by the same token there is a lot of machinery that is simply going to grind to a halt because nobody knows how to set a simple slide valve.
Sure it is written down in books, but very few explain how to make or even what a 'trammel' for setting valves looks like. These books were written at a time when the vast majority of people were familiar with steam equipment. If you mentioned 'crankshaft' back in the late 1800's most kids would know what you were talking about. I can almost guarantee a lot of blank stares from todays youth, which is perfectly natural, a sign of the times.

All hope isnt lost yet. I occasionally show metalwork classes some videos of steam bits and bobs and this year, two boys asked if they could start making something like that. Theyre now neck deep in a V-twin wobbler (from elmers engines, albeit redesigned) and one of them wants to spend the year coming making that little wobbler power something. Im thinking a pump of some sort, but Ive gotta rub the chin a bit more before I commit to anything for him. But the point is, that when willing and enthusiastic people get together, these facinating machines will keep going. Oh how Id love for more of these kids to come my way.

Far from boring ,watching paint dry is boring, would make a nice little model.
I love watching this kind of working engine, nice repair job Phil.
Eddie

Originally Posted by DSEL74

I'm more than impressed with the ingenuity shown and the precision that goes into some of these setups. Something to aspire to. I had a good chuckle at the counter weight, there goes another good smithing hammer

I once used a large bearing case around 6" dia. as a spacer in a four jaw chuck being ground and parallel it was a great help in quickly setting up the piece offset from the face of the chuck. After setup I tried with a large mallet to knock the piece out. It wouldn't budge so I naively left it there, I didn't consider it not being 100% centred and the effect of centrifugal force. Needless to say it worked it self loose at high RPM took the tip off my left ear and put a rectangular hole in dads roof. I finished the job but didn't go near the lathe again for over a decade I was to gun shy of it.

Thanks Dale,
As you now know, packers are killers. Never ever ever leave anything in a chuck that's not clamped, bolted, screwed or it will... well, you know the rest . It makes you realise how it can all go pear shaped very quickly.
I thought I would take a pic of the sledge for you. she's pretty buggered plus it has 'Always wear safety goggles' forged into it.
DSCN2174.jpg

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

Far from boring Phil. I loved watching it run. Great job.

Dean

Thanks Dean, although I do understand that it isn't everyones cup of tea

Originally Posted by scottyd

All hope isnt lost yet. I occasionally show metalwork classes some videos of steam bits and bobs and this year, two boys asked if they could start making something like that. Theyre now neck deep in a V-twin wobbler (from elmers engines, albeit redesigned) and one of them wants to spend the year coming making that little wobbler power something. Im thinking a pump of some sort, but Ive gotta rub the chin a bit more before I commit to anything for him. But the point is, that when willing and enthusiastic people get together, these facinating machines will keep going. Oh how Id love for more of these kids to come my way.

Great news Scotty,
good to hear there are kids out there that are interested in where engineering began rather than just where it is going.
What about a small dynamo powering an LED or torch globe or a small saw bench with a dremel saw blade for cutting matchsticks
Stuart Turner make castings to be machined for miniature/scaled down workshop equipment like a shaper, lathe, pedestal drill etc.

Phil

Thanks for the suggestions steamwhisperer. The castings are probably too ambitious for time and moneys sake, but youve got me thinking with regards to the saw...

Getting closer now to completing the Worthington pump refit and recommissioning. I was beginning to run out of ideas on how to get the pump to run consistently well as it seemed to have good moments and bad ones all in the same day. The only thing I could put it down to was that there isn't an isolation valve between it and the Welch Perrin pumps which would allow the water to 'see-saw' through them at low speed. A collective decision was made to instal an isolating valve (something that had been on the list for a long time) and see if it made a difference. It made a whole lot of difference!
While installing the isolating valve I also relocated the relief valve so that all the delivery lines are protected from 'dead ending'. A must with positive displacement pumps.
I have also completed the copper piping for the cylinder drains and located the outlets in the common drain under the floor plates. The floor plate was modified so it could be removed for cleaning of the common drain and an inspection hole cut in for viewing the ends of the copper cylinder drain pipes while warming the pump through prior to startup.
All that's left now is to replace a small section of suction pipe that feeds the pumps which is 1 1/2" NB (Nominal Bore). The rest of the suction pipe is 2" as are the pumps and having a restriction like this is never good practise.

Phil
DSCN2191.JPG DSCN2198.JPG DSCN2199.jpg DSCN2196.JPG DSCN2200.JPG DSCN2201.jpg DSCN2202.jpg DSCN2205.JPG DSCN2208.jpg DSCN2211.JPG DSCN2006.jpg DSCN2221.jpg DSCN2225.jpg DSCN2226.JPG DSCN2227.jpg DSCN2236.jpg

Hi Phil,

At the risk of proving I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Don't you now have a gate valve between each pump and the relief valve?

Stuart

Hi Stuart,
You are spot on (as usual) but the three pumps, two Welch Perrin Weirs type and the Worthington, are all 2" on the suction side and we only have one 2" pipe feeding all three pumps. We only need to run one pump at a time as they are big enough to keep up with the steam usage we have.
With equipment this old it is nice to have options though.
I am about to rebuild the Pearns wall pump and we are procuring an auto positive injector to give us even more options for filling the boilers plus it means we have an example of nearly all the different ways of feeding boilers under pressure.
In the pic:
The hot well feeds the boilers as it is preheated and has the water treatment added.
The cold well is the make up water that feeds the hot well but can be used in an emergency hence the pipework feeding the common suction line.
The common suction line feeds all the pumps and there are two more valves not in the pic but situated between the two Welch Perrin pumps.

Phil
DSCN2234.jpg

Phil:

I notice all those pipes are screwed end fittings with unions. On ships we always used butt weld fittings wherever possible with the minimum amount of unions we could get away with. All bolted flanges too (no screwed inline ball or gate valves, we'd use a threaded pipe toe welded to a flange).

Do you use the screwed fittings for historic compliance or some other reason?

PDW

Nice idea of using the lathe to get the angles right, sort of a mandrel bender , is the bender mounted on the cross slide?? Wouldn't have thought of using a lathe chuck.
Kryn