Thread: Wiring VFD to Arboga mill?

How would you do an emergency stop in a car.... turn the key off & wait?

How long does it take to stop if you turn the power off?

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

How would you do an emergency stop in a car.... turn the key off & wait?

Well now depends on what is going on at the time.
If you are about to run into a wall, braking would be a good thing.
If you have already run into a wall, keeping full power on for 5 seconds might not be such a good idea.

How many brake pedals does your car have? One for normal braking and one for E/stop?

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

How long does it take to stop if you turn the power off?

From what speed? 3000rpm it takes awhile. Time isn't the question, it's how much power is in the spindle.

Ken does your mill have power feed or are you thinking about fitting it?

Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

...
How many brake pedals does your car have? One for normal braking and one for E/stop?
...

Gears, a brake pedal & a hand brake, applied according to the conditions.

Do you think that because you have the same drive that you are the expert?

I am sorry I bothered to even put my opinion forward, I won't make that mistake again, even if I do have a couple of VSD controllers & 34 years experience in electronics including process control & computers.

You are obviously far more qualified to solve Ken's problems.

Best of luck Ken.

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

wanker.

Wow are we having fun yet?

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

Do you think that because you have the same drive that you are the expert?

No and I don't believe I said such.

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

I am sorry I bothered to even put my opinion forward, I won't make that mistake again, even if I do have a couple of VSD controllers & 34 years experience in electronics including process control & computers.

You offered you opinion, I offered my opinion.
You used the car analogy, I used a car analogy.
You started name calling, now its my turn.

"Oh oh oh You are". *injections, no returns, double injections*

Stuart

Shhhh!!! Pax Vobiscum

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

Stu beat me & has a valid point.

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Well thats a first!

Won't happen again.

Wow it's all happening in this thread, LOL

Cliff, we all have different opinions, thats what makes these threads so good, as we get to read them all.
Do you always name call when someone has a different view? Or did you just get out of bed the wrong side today.

Dave

Fellas, please. We are all mates with a common interest in hobby level engineering.

I'm a novice, and learn from all inputs. What I don't want to see is any antagonism. Life is too delicate, look what's happening in Japan right now, so let's get back to some normality and constructive input.

Sit back, have a beer, and calm down.

Ken

Reckon I'll skip the E-switch, and just use the remote hand held pendant to turn the VFD off.

Nothing on the Arboga is power fed, hand fed only, so in reality, I shouldn't need an emergency stop.

I'll bypass the thermal overload, and just power the whole jigger with batteries, this should keep everyone happy.

Ken

Ken

Ken
I only asked about the powerfeed as if you had one, you would need to make sure it was switched off at the same time. As you don't that wont be a problem

What did you decide to do about the switch?

Stuart

p.s. I tested the VSD.
I don't know what page 5 of the manual is on about. The E/stop needs to make a circuit to work, not break one.
The VSD drives the spindle during ramp down.

Hi Stu,

Reckon the manual is translated from Tibetan into English, it is contradictory in places.

The two speed switch will be left insitu, set in one position or the other, and disabled. The thermal overload will be bi-passed. No E-stop.

All controls will be via the remote pendant. I figure, this way, it should be easy peasy.

Can't wait for my ER32 collet set and chuck to arrive. CTCtools seem to be a little slow on delivery,
however, I have patience.


Kenneffff

Originally Posted by neksmerj

Can't wait for my ER32 collet set and chuck to arrive. CTCtools seem to be a little slow on delivery,
however, I have patience.
Kenneffff

You will need to get the mill wired up and running to be able to use them.
I would say it will be here early next week Ken as it has only been 11 working days. I know what it's like buying from someone new and being anxious to make sure it arrives.

Dave

Originally Posted by watson

Pax Vobiscum

Indeed... ( I had to google it )

Hi Stuart,
Sheesh, turn your back for 5 minutes and there's a train wreck.

I agree with just using the digital inputs on the drive to do the normal start and stop, you could use the pendant to do pretty much everything needed during normal operation. (note I said pendant, not pedant)

Hi Cliff,
It's normal practice for e-stops to kill everything, free wheel to stop **might** be an issue on a lathe where there could be a lot of mass rotating, but on a mill it's only the tooling. It stops pretty much straight away anyway, I see nothing wrong with just killing the mains power on e-stops.


Ok, glad that's sorted, now Ken, where's that beer...

Regards
Ray

Hi All,
I can see what Cliff is getting at using the VSD to bring the Mill to a quick stop by a programed Emergency Stop which would be quicker than a stop by coasting to stop.
This is found in the Australian Standards AS60204.1-2005. Section 9.2.1 It refers to three Categories of Stop Functions being;
Stop Category 0 : Stopping by immediate removal of power at the machines actuators (i.e. an uncontrolled stop)
Stop Category 1 A controlled stop with power available in the machine actuators to achieve the stop and then removal the power when the stop is achieved.
Stop Category 2 A controlled stop with power left available to machine actuators.
The problem with just using the VSD to achieve the Stop Category 1 is that VSD’s are not what is called in Industry Failsafe, it would not meet the requirements AS60204.1-2006 or AS62061. There are Failsafe Controllers that would allow the use of the Stop Category 1 but as this is just for home use would be too expensive.
There is the European Standard IEC 61800-5-2 where VSD’s can have an Emergency Stop input and the practice is to have two signals one to the Stop Input and one to the Emergency Stop input where there is an interruption to the IGB stage, but it is not a recognized Standard in Australia as yet.
My suggestion to take power off the VSD at input stage was based on a quick cost effective way to isolate the VSD in an emergency situation. For normal operation of the Mill the Start/Stop controls are fine, but when something goes wrong and you hit the Emergency Stop you want to know that the VSD is isolated and that it indeed has stopped and hasn’t failed so suggested using a Stop Category 0, complete removal of power.
This is a Domestic installation not an Industrial one hence my suggestion. If I was working on this application in Industry I would be applying the quoted above Standards and the Machine Control would be configured to the Safety Control Categories found in AS4024.1-2006 which would make this far more expensive.

Regards,
Keith.