Thread: Workshop security (CCTV camera's)

Hi Dave,

Sorry to hear about these events.

It's very difficult to work out what the intent was when they did what they did. That's why it's difficult to put things in place to prevent any potential future moves on their part.

I'm no expert (Disclaimer!) but I would be working out what I want to achieve:

1 Detection, so that you can be alerted after they break in,
2 Deterrent so hopefully they won't try anything again
3 Detection and recording images to ID any offenders after they have stollen your stuff.
4 Any combination.

Highly visible camera's placed around may act as a deterrent. However, if you pin your hopes on them then you will have to make sure they are well placed and work/record exactly at the point they are needed. Also, if they are visible then they have the luxury to attempt to put in place counter measures such as disabling or working out any blind spots. Having said this, if they had any ounce of intelligence then they would have done a recce and not left a trace, so I don't think you are dealing with brain surgeons!

You can have hidden camera's so if they do decide to break in then they are more likely to be recorded without them knowing but you don't have the luxury of a deterrent.

A basic alarm system will let you know that someone is there but if you're not home then you either need to ring someone to get over there or just hope for the best when you get home. If you are home and you wish to confront them, well that's another whole can of worms!

If you are mainly concerned with what's in the shed then perhaps you can get away with one or two camera's inside the actual shed.

In terms of recording and motion detection, well most of that is done with software nowdays I think, so if you have the cameras connected to a PC and have a basic security software package, you should be able to set it up so that it will record once the software detects a certain amount of movement or a change over time of the image. It should be able to record in time laps of in real time to the HDD. You should be able to have this happen 24/7 with the software re-recording after a user defined time period ie a week, or longer if you go on holidays.

Make sure you keep the PC in a safe location so they can't trash the evidence! In the shed would be a waste of time!

Also take into account that some CCT cameras are more light sensitive than others. If you want them to pick up stuff at night then you will need one that can go down to very low light levels and perhaps one that will be sensitive to IR so that you can have the option of IR illumination. Also if you choose colour CCT cameras, they will generally have lower quality images at night and any images in IR will be in B&W anyway.

Whatever you choose, definitely use the KISS principle. Ebay will be your friend whatever you choose to do. Also, once someone decides they want what you have, they will get it regardless of how secure you make your shed! It's risk versus reward and if the reward is high then they will take the risk.

Show no mercy.

Good luck!

Simon

Wow, thanks for the reply.

That system is a all in one recorder and burner. It has 1TB off recording space which we get 1 1/2 weeks out of set on medium for picture quality with 12 cameras.
The cameras are not to bad, without going silly and spending a fortune.

I am still keeping locks on everything and double locks on the shed and wont be removing them from now on.

I will take some pointers out of what you said
So thanks again
Dave

Dave, Do you have a UPS / Battery Backup on the security system? When we got cleaned out about 14 years ago the police told us that some thieves will rent a house in the area and establish peoples movements over a period of time and find the patterns, If they suspect a house has been vacated they'll switch off the power in the meter box and return the next day, if the power is still off they'll make a move. If you have a visible security system and they are desperate they'll wait maybe 1 week for the battery to drain down and check again. So if your power box is accessible they'll more than likely switch off the power and render the security system useless. Steeling your dogs may have been an attempt to silence them but to cut your fences they may have been in progress of the burglary and got interrupted. Most of these thieves are supporting a drug habit and are up for the easy pickings. If they see a security system of any description that is a major deterrent. The insurance company told us that dogs are even better, the batteries don't run down. Maybe your bull mastiff was more than they bargained for and backed out when they saw him. I think visible dummy cameras and signs are useful backed up by pinhole or concealed cameras to catch them in the act. You need to ensure that they can't get access to the recording equipment.

Hi,
Sorry to hear about your theft, did they ever catch them?
I had a moto cross bike stolen when I was 15 and still never forget it, thinking my sister hid it on me. I got it back about a week latter, wrecked and mud water through the radiator. The guy that took it I knew, but because his mother was on a pension back then, I got no compensation and he got off at court.
It annoyed me as I had paid for that bike, and all I got from the bike wreckers was $100 when it cost me $899 which was a lot of money back then.

We have a lock on the meter box and I am home 24/7 all the time. Not sure what happened that night as I fed the dogs scraps about 11:30 on the way back down the shed and closed up the shed about 12:00 - 12:30.
My son and his girl friend where in the caravan halfway down the yard and he said the dog which is beside him was going off about 3;00, he banged on the wall and told him to be quiet.
So whether it was because of this I don't know, but thinking back know they must have been watching me. To get past the dog and up into the top yard , it is only a small track and if you don't know the dog he lunges at you and lots of people think he is aggressive just by looking at him.
The place where they came through had trampled grass so it was a well worn track, and I have been keeping my eye on it and it has fully grown back with so no one has been through their lately. Also when I found the wire cut the next day, the ends of it where not shinny as though it had just been cut and where it is you cant see it from the house and I never really took any notice before hand, though I do now.

While I spent the nights staying up until the cameras got here, I would hear the dogs in a few other paddocks going crazy also, but seem to go away when I flooded the paddocks with spot lights and going down their with a xxn. This was around the same times like 1:00 to 5:00 in the morning. A few times I thought I saw something I would go down the lane in the car as well.

The recording gear is inside and I don't have batter back and not even sure how to have a 240v battery backup on this system.
We have drug o's across the road and there are plenty of others around here. The other week some young guys where waiting in a car across the road when my daughter came home with her new boy Friend. He is a younger bikie and 6'6 tall built like a brick sh*t house, so he went across and ask what the where doing and gave a few words and they sh*t. they moved on really quick. It turns out they where waiting for the girls across the road in that house to sneak out. So I don't think we will be having any trouble from them anytime soon, though we never have (that I know of).

I have sensor lights front and back and the police said to do this, so if they do come onto the property it will be in full light.

It makes me wonder what happened to this place we live in here. It used to be rural and rural rego, then they built and moved houses in and it went to residential. My wifes family owned this whole town back in the day and we have pictures of here great great grandfather up in the mountains with his old musket riffle when it was one property. Back even 30 years ago everyone new everyone and there was very little trouble, as we had a local Sargent. But after he got shot up the mountain, they closed the local station and now they are 30-40 minutes away.
He was the type that would deal with you the old fashion way, but today they just get away with it, so theres no deterrent at all. Even the police have told me their hands are tied, and when they do get enough to get them to court, the judge lets them go again.
Makes you wonder what it will be like for our kids and grand kids down the track with their houses and possessions.

Before this we would and could leave anything out in the yard. We have high fences right around great neighbors. I would get on my sons back to at least put a chain on his bikes, as he would just leave them out in the yard for days after washing it, but in the 25 years here we have never had one thing stolen. Now it has all changed and we have locks on everything, even the gates inside the yard..
Maybe we have just been lucky all these years.

Dave

Dave, They never caught the scumbags but I reckon the neighbor's son was involved. He was a real weasel and a bludger at that. The police showed no interest in solving the crime. They asked if we had insurance as if that was some way of brushing us off. Years after making the claim we were still finding that things got stolen that we had completely forgotten about.

I used to put a padlock on the meter box but got warned by the electricity mob that I could face a fine for preventing access so I removed it. How do you get around that? I suppose being home you can unlock it for the meter reader.

Security is your own responsibility and it's good to see you're vigilant.

Around here you can go to electrical mob and buy a key for around $30 (I think it was). The meter reader has a far few keys when he walks around, so it is just a duplicate of one of the keys he has.
The mates dad put me onto this as he had bad neighbors who would turn his power of just to be smart when they where away at markets each weekend.

The police said the same thing to me about insurance, and I told them I would not be claiming which I didn't. It seems they think it fixes things. I know what you mean about not knowing what they took, as I would be hard pressed to know everything around here. I remember years ago when they told me to right everything down in the shed, I opened cupboards and looked and said this is is a joke and left it. Today they don't seem to ask for that.

Dave

If you approach the supply authority they will provide a lock and key. It is one of their standard security locks. The key you have will only open your lock but the meter reader has a skeleton key that will open all similar locks.

DaveJ, I just got back into town - sorry to hear your story here. I've just skimmed through the replies, so my apologies to everyone if it's been covered. Three things occurred to me - one is that they took the dogs so they wouldn't bark next time when they make a bigger raid - so it's good to see you've got your cameras now. 2nd thing - I had a mate who somehow could monitor his security cameras remotely on his iphone from anywhere in the world. Not sure of the details but could find out if interested. 3rd: Beware the booby trap ideas, which I'm sure are offered more as a show of solidarity rather than straight up advice - unfortunately our legal system doesn't seem to think we are allowed to defend our homes any more.

Despite that, I hope the scum get what's coming to them and that this somehow has a silver lining for you.

Cheers

- Mick

Hi Mick, thanks for the reply,
Our system is connected to the internet like you say, and there are no booby traps.
I was talking to the police a while back and asked them about cable tying someones hands together until they arrives if I caught them in the yard. The answer was no and told me another guy that did that, got in more trouble over it than the kids.

Dave

Although the law states that you may use "reasonable force" to defend your person and property. You can only use force to detain if there is incontrovertible evidence of a crime being committed such that the charges will result in a prosecution. Your powers of arrest are the same as the police although they have extra "privileges" such as bearing arms but I don't think they can draw arms unless the perpetrator has a weapon.

If you decide to use cable ties or any other devices to deprive a perpetrator of their liberty then this is considered assault in various degrees. I believe you are permitted to physically restrain a perpetrator bodily, i.e. grab hold of, use half nelson or sit upon without the use of a device. Think about a recent case where a burglar was caught in the act and the owner sat on him while calling the police. It took some time for the police to respond and in the meantime the perpetrator had a heart attack and died while being sat upon. Who's the victim? The home owner got off the charges as there is no law preventing a person causing another to have a cardiac arrest (death due to natural causes). So if you scare the crap out of someone and they die of heart failure it's hard for the police to secure a conviction. likewise in this case there was no way for the home owner to tell if the perpetrator had a heart condition and it was deemed that he used reasonable force to detain the perpetrator without use of weapons and there was sufficient evidence that a crime was committed warranting the use of force.

Also keeping a device such as a club,bat, stick, knife or even a gun handy for self defense results in criminal charges if used against an assailant or perpetrator of crime. By doing so you're in a state of premeditating a homicide if it should eventuate. Working backwards if someone is killed or comes close to it by your hand using a device then the legal system determines that you are the criminal who has been sitting in wait for a victim regardless of who that might be.

Another thing, In case of a situation when someone unwelcome enters a private residence then the owner must show just cause that the intruder has no business to be there. If the intruder shows no threat to occupants or intent to steal or damage property then it's hard to get rid of them legally. So they can camp in your lounge room and you need to go to a magistrate to acquire an eviction notice and have this served on the "squatter". I believe many a drunkard has wondered into the wrong house by mistake.

The police won't get involved unless a crime has been committed or suspected to be committed with evidence. I had first hand experience of this with a trespasser who became aggressive. She had mental health issues and decided she liked my gardens and insisted she had a right to enjoy them. Picking flowers etc. I asked her to leave and she hung around for 2 hours, I called the police 3 times with no help until she threatened me with a cudgel she had in her bag. She wondered into the bush when I told her the cops were on the away and four hours later the police knocked on my door to inform me that they couldn't find anyone. Either of us could have been lying seriously injured or worse. Calling 000 was useless. I had to call the cop shop directly and tell them the intruder had a weapon. Had I touched her no doubt they would've charged me with assault.

So you must be very careful what you do in regard to thieves and intruders. The police are only too happy to lay charge regardless of who the victim is and it's at their discretion. It all makes sense in a happy trouble free society but I believe it's all changing now as we see more cases of home invasion with violent consequences.

Hi DaveJ,

Seems scumbags are everywhere. Sounds like someone who knows too much about your place. If you do go down the camera route keep the following in mind. Hope this helps.

I hooked up a system for a relatives business who was having visits at all hours.

1. Majority of cameras are useless anytime after dusk and before dawn. So make sure you test them before you buy. Best I have found is to use a reasonable low light capable camera with zoom lens and with spotlights. Leave infrared lights alone, they are too expensive and too little spread and range.

2. Cameras are no good if they can turn of the power or find blind spots

3. Make the cameras visible but in inaccessible. We found that to be hidden the cameras had too many blind spots, putting them out there stopped the BS straight away.

4. Case your own joint and figure how someone would likely get to your stuff and target the weaknesses as a priority. Fix fences properly, tighten up gate chains, add a bit or barbed wire. Clear away potential cover.

5. Hook in an alarm notification system such as SMS or call if at all possible.

This at least gives you a chance to call help before all your stuff is gone. Where we had the problem was in an industrial area. The scum were watching things closely as neighbouring businesses truck drivers cars were getting dismantled or knocked off between trucks coming back and leaving from the depot. Cameras alone will only give you a picture maybe with a face but probably not and won't stop your stuff walking out the door.

6. Was told by person who had talked to cops that camera footage even with a reasonable capture of face (ie the cops can id that local scumbag number 1,2 or 3 was there) will not necessarily get them locked up.

Have yet to finish (9 months and counting) this but was in process of hacking together a passive infrared (PIR) sensor to a SMS controller to a programmable module. (Cost about $240 so far plus monthly sim card fee). Idea was this could be stashed away out of sight so that when the PIR was triggered it would activate SMS controller to send a SMS to say something was going down.

Hi, it sounds like you are up on the electronics
I will follow some of your tips, I have already bought the 12 camera system and have it up.

Dave

1. Keep your insurance up to date.
2. Take photographs of your equipment (backup a copy to a portable drive).
3. Record serial numbers.
4. If possible, engrave your name on your equipment.

If thieves torch your shed, items 1 - 3 are invaluable.

HTH,
Mike

Hi Dave,

Here's a story that might you might be interested in following, it's in your neck of the woods too..

Residents questioned after alleged home invader dies - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Regards
Ray