American TS safety?

**niki** · 25th April 2007, 05:14 PM

I'm reading (and participating) in many of the American WW forums and the UK forum and this issue comes up from time to time.

The American safety laws (or regulations) are very.....I'm not sure what safety regulations they have....

In UK (actually all EU) the safety regulations are very clear:
1. Riving knife (not splitter) must be installed for all operations
2. Blade guard must be installed for all operations
3. The blade must come to rest within 10 seconds
4. Short fence must be used for all ripping operations
5. The rip fence should have two positions, high fence for thick boards and low fence for shallow or angled ripping.

You can see it all and more here
www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

From the above, not even one of the American saws will cross the pond to EU.

But lets leave the laws, I think that safety is a matter of commonsense or simple logic.
The guard will not make it safer, the guard guards from "flying objects" like splinters or blade tooth but it will not prevent anyone of pushing his fingers under the guard and....ER.

I'm very sorry to hear (or read) about those guys that had an accident but on the other hand, I would like to look in this guy's eyes and ask him "what the hell, your hand or fingers were doing so close to the blade, you didn't know that the blade is a cutting device"....Sorry but it's like while driving, crossing to the opposite traffic lane and after the collision telling "I did not know that there is incoming traffic"...(on which you drive in OZ).

I'm working with "high blade" because of the reasons that Soundman mentioned but I use the Riving knife, guard, push blocks and push shoes as you can see on the pics below (even with the crosscut sled).

I think that one have to "want" to cut his fingers on the TS, that's the reason that they have so many posts on "How good and safe the SawStop is", yes it is, especially if one has intentions to cut his fingers....as they say in aviation "Accidents don't happen - they are caused".

Interestingly, when I posted the "Jointing on router table" in one of the American WW forums, the "Master" himself (Pat Warner) replied to me - "Suicidal operation", but, I'm very curious if he replied the same way to the guy's that operate the TS like in the pic (and video) above as "Suicidal operation" (and with all due respect, I still think that my operation on the router table is safe especially after I added the second fence, well, at least muuuuch safer than on the video).

**Ernie47** · 25th April 2007, 05:14 PM

Thank you Gents. The timber is 50x100x1200. The saw is 254mm.
As soon as the blade height was mentioned I recalled reading this somewhere. (Used to using a CS with minimum blade showing!)
The knife is aligned O.K. There is always the possibility I my expection is far greater than the ability to deliver. Not to mention the blade. I had been intending to replace the blade with MORE teeth. OOP's. wrong again.
Ernie.

**RossM** · 25th April 2007, 07:50 PM

Hi Ernie

ripping 4 x 2 pinus should be like the proverbial hot knife in butter. I would get a decent ripping blade! (From my experience don't get the cheap ones on special in Bunnies - pay a bit more - cheaper in the long run) BTW, what brand/model is the saw?

**RossM** · 25th April 2007, 07:53 PM

Just another thought - you DO have the blade on the right way around, don't you

??

**soundman** · 25th April 2007, 10:37 PM

All righty then.
One thing that I would have verry little faith in would be a university study into the operation of a table saw....... BH..... if these university types were experienced machine users may be, but some how I doubt it.

One of the most dangerous situations on a table saw is a board being ripped, the cut closeing up and the rear of the blade getting traction on the piece thus lifting the piece...... the blade then gets traction on the underside of the piece propelling the piece like a spear directly back at the operator.
table saw 3hp at 5000rpm, blade 20 tooth. vs woodworker maximum peak output 400watts reaction time about 500ms.
woodworker looses
similarly any situation when the back of the blade forces the piece up contacting the top of the blade
It is very much harder to have this problem with a splitter or better a riving knife in place.

rossm.. I have it exactly the right way round.
read my post again.
ripping with the blade all the way up is the safest and most efficient ripping option. unless you are not using a guard...... because there is a substantial risk of comming in contact with the exposed blade.

Speaking of cut quality in a ripping action as you speak..... is not a ripping action..... you are looking for a surfacing action...... there is a compromise of purpose.

If I was using a 20 tooth ripping blade i would not expect a glue line cut.
My latest ripping blade is pretty good but I wouldn't be using it for a glue line cut.

BTW my last ripping blade cost me a just a bit more than $50. Good brand too.

As for assertions about what the manufacturer intends..... that is a very big generalisation. With all the different geometries offered by the umpteen manufacturers..... sorry bad generalisation.

As I said there was an extensive thread on the subject of blade projection a little while ago so I want go thru the whole thing again.
however I have found

That strict generalisations about how much blade projection produces the best cut are not helpful.
Depending on the blade and the material being cut and the finish problem in hand the optimum amount of blade projection varies substantilay.

one example
one of my blades cuts laminate better (gives a cleaner top edge)with a high blade position 25mm or more of projection. this is contary to the common mantra.

Finaly
any blade guard's primary function is to prevent acidental contact with the spinning blade...... of course you can put your hand under the guard but you cant just bump into it.
additionaly most guards will provide some discouragement to pieces riding up and getting on top of the blade and other such misbehaviour.

cheers chaps

**Ernie47** · 28th April 2007, 06:10 PM

Gedday Ross, I did reply sooner but it seems to have got lost in hyperspace.
The saw is Ryobi ETS1526AL & the blade is in O.K. & spins the right way.) The wood ispretty rough, from pallets or packing cases so friction on the table could add to the perception of being slow.
Soundman, your not alone in your scepticism. It was universty intelligencia who claimed a cricket ball can't swing & THAT slow bowler doesn't chuck!

Ernie

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