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Thread: Close call

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrick View Post
    You need something like this

    Rick

    Attachment 441404
    Whilst these appear to meet the requirements of machinery safety regulations, imo they are a poor solution due to the design of the flap and the ease with which the flap can be dislodged from the base.

    The event at the root of this discussion highlights the short comings of this design. I believe that the "close call" should be discussed with staff at the Electrical Safety Office within Worksafe with a view to having this style of switch discontinued on "hobby" machinery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    These types of switches are better - the ON button is completely covered and the cover has to be positively lifted to switch on.

    Attachment 441417
    These are a more satisfactory design, however the cover flap can still be dislodged from the unit. Been there ….

    Quote Originally Posted by warrick View Post
    That looks like a better solution Bob, I have those on my sander and DC. On the table saw It came with something similar to this which has never been a problem.



    Rick

    Attachment 441428
    These units are a far better solution however they cost more …. therefore are not high on the design priorities for "budget machinery."
    Mobyturns

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    great thread. I have an old TS with what looks to me like an old bakelite light switch on it, this reminds me that I really need to change that before I get into using it too much... I'll go to something like https://www.carbatec.com.au/machinery-and-accessories/electrical-switches-and-leads/nvr-switch-kjd-12-narrow-plate-45mmx72mm-plate-3-holes as a first step (until I can justify replacing the whole saw)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post
    These are a more satisfactory design, however the cover flap can still be dislodged from the unit. Been there ….

    Close call-screen-shot-2018-08-29-7-02-17-pm-png

    Sure but if the flap is knocked off the one above it is no worse than the one shown below.
    The stop button is still above the start, and the start button is flush with the surface so has to be positively engaged.

    Close call-ms1-bct-01-2-jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Close call-screen-shot-2018-08-29-7-02-17-pm-png

    Sure but if the flap is knocked off the one above it is no worse than the one shown below.
    The stop button is still above the start, and the start button is flush with the surface so has to be positively engaged.

    Close call-ms1-bct-01-2-jpg
    The start button on the original unit is also below the yellow surround. The difference with the DOL unit is that there is no flap which can be dislodged into a position that can actuate the switch.

    The real lesson here is always i
    solate the machine whenever your appendages are in a position where they can be injured with an unintended start-up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanesmith80 View Post
    Now I have been considering a new tablesaw for a while and a Saw Stop has been on the list. Not just for the safety feature but I believe it is a goood saw. Now obviously this incident would have cost me a new cartridge and blade on top of the already soiled pants, but has certainly got me thinking.

    I am glad your mishap did not result in an injury. You could not have repeated it with the SawStop. I've had mine for almost a decade and am familiar with it but don't have any stake in their business.

    The saw has 3 switches.

    The first one is the lockout switch to use when the saw needs to be locked out from the mains for blade changes or to safety the saw against unauthorized use.

    The second switch is the one that you turn on to activate the braking system. If it isn't turned on and the saw's braking system active and functioning correctly, the saw can't be started.

    The last switch is to turn on the saw for a cut. You need to pull it out to turn on the saw and when you want to stop, it is pushed in. Placement of it makes stopping with a bump with your left leg convenient but deliberate. I can't recall ever bumping it with my thigh accidentally while I was working. When in the off position the paddles edges are recessed except for the bottom quarter of the paddle. That keeps it from being snagged along the side like you did with your saw and being turned on. You have to put your finger under it from the bottom to pull it out.

    The braking system is always sensing even when the blade isn't turning but it won't fire unless spinning. When the blade is touched while stationary by you or something that would fire the brake the status/diagnostic lights flash at the switch and it won't let you start the saw. It is the way you check to see if the saw brake would activate if the material will set it off. Very wet wood, metal, wet pressure treated wood etc. For materials that would set it off you have to turn a bypass key with one hand and pull out the paddle with the other and wait a few seconds before it starts. You need to do this every time you push the paddle back in again. (guess I have to amend and say there are 4 switches.) So in the case where you touch the stopped blade with the tape measure to set a stop block and by some fluke your leg hair managed to pull out the paddle switch, the brake would detect the contact and prevent power from the switch from turning the saw on. There would be no brake activation so you wouldn't need a new blade and brake.

    Now if you made a cut and turned off the saw to move the stop to a new position and while the blade was spinning down you, in a moment of inattention, touched the blade with a few revolutions to go it will fire the brake. I know because I did that once and only once. The tape measure was unharmed by the way. I learned you don't work when tired, you're not fully alert and to be patient. It is always a good idea to keep a spare brake around too. Just in case.

    So the ultimately safe way to work would be to turn off the second switch before getting your hands near the blade when setting stops. It will slow you down some because it takes a few moments to power up and run the self diagnostic before you get the green light to switch on the saw.

    If you ever do get a SawStop you will not regret it as it is a well made machine.

    Pete

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    I have recently upgraded to a SawStop. I've never had a significant kick-back or near-miss with my old saw as I really try to be very prepared and careful to the point of pedantic. So why bother with the SawStop? Unforseen, unexpected or freek occurences. Not all accidents are due to inexperience, negligence or stupidity, and the cost (personal and dollars) far outweigh the cost of the SawStop for me.

    Well done for raising your near-miss with the community though, and great advice in response in how to reduce the likelihood of your event happening again.

    P.S. Regardless of the safety increase in the sawstop, what an upgrade from the little Jet I've been using previously! You won't be disjointed if you go that way.

    [edit] haha, the last line was supposed to read “you won’t be disappointed...” but got autocorrected. So while “disjointed” wasn’t my intended word, it's a rather apt mistake given the topic!

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    My old man was a joiner for 70 years, I can remember him scolding me as a kid (and reminding me for the next 45 years)for not turning the power off or unplugging a tool when doing anything to the cutting edges, I still do it now, and have seen several near misses and accidents from people adjusting things or working on blades etc and actually turning the unit on. It’s a good safe habit to get into.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riverbuilder View Post
    My old man was a joiner for 70 years, I can remember him scolding me as a kid (and reminding me for the next 45 years)for not turning the power off or unplugging a tool when doing anything to the cutting edges, I still do it now, and have seen several near misses and accidents from people adjusting things or working on blades etc and actually turning the unit on. It’s a good safe habit to get into.
    Your Dad was a smart man - mine was like that too and I am thankful every day for his example, in deed and kind and for his occasional friendly "clip over the ear."

    Inexplicably sensibility and a lot of trade safety knowledge is seemingly lost in our modern approach to "idiot proofing" tools and processes.

    One very good example is the QLD Gov'ts current crack down on WH&S in the stone masonry industry and particularly "dry cutting engineered stone." DOH!

    How long have wet cutting saws been about? Since about the 1930's then we had an "on site dry cutting innovation" in the 1980's that really gained momentum from about 2000 on. Now almost every tradie and DIYer has a 4" diamond blade for their angle grinder, and they use them dry cutting. Marketers made $$$, lots of $$$ as sensibility, safe work practices and PPE went out the window for the sake of convenience and supposed time and $$$ savings. The incidence of exposure of users and bystanders, to fine stone dusts has never been higher! Silicosis is a nasty way to die.

    But back to this close call - how much of a real inconvenience is it to turn off and unplug a machine, i.e. table or band saw, whilst changing a blade or whilst performing any setting up that requires direct measurement to the blade?
    Mobyturns

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