Thread: Watch where you put your hands

This is all a plot to keep me from moving to Australia but it won't work guys.
If you really want to stop me from moving there you will have to send money..........LOTS of money!

I don't know why... cut we seem to be up to our armpits in canuks up here in QLD.

It's probably the warm weather and the absence of polar bears...

those things are worse than crocks.....I saw a TV programe where a wild life officer had to go out and fix a cabin... a polar bear had wrecked the door and eaten the matress

cheers

Well, here on Vancouver Island, we have rabbits and the occasional deer plus news of cougar once in a while. But just yesterday, (We live about 100 meters from the ocean) we watched about 30 killer whales go by swimming south. Magnificent sight.
Sorry to sidetrack, just had to mention it.

Ya have T wach out for those bunnies, ther' vischious man killers with nasty big teeth cheers

White tailed spiders do have a necrotic effect, I speak from personal experience.Was awoken early one morning by intense pain just like a bee sting on my left hand switched on the light to see one of those buggers making its way down the bed sheets.By the next day my wrist had ballooned up and the skin started to peel around the bite mark.Straight to quacks big dose of anti biotic via needle then on tablets for two weeks.At its worst wound was about the size of fifty cent piece.Still have the scar.
Everything I had read on the web cautioned against using anti biotics,however fixed my problem

More than you ever wanted to know...
White tail spiders are highly unlikely to cause necrotic wounds, brown recluse spiders probably do through necrosis-inducing venom components

Article 1

Comment in: Med J Aust. 2003 Aug 18;179(4):180-1. White-tail spider bite: a prospective study of 130 definite bites by Lampona species.

Isbister GK, Gray MR.
Discipline of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Newcastle, Level 5, Clinical Sciences Building, Newcastle Mater Misericordiae Hospital, Waratah, NSW 2298, Australia. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the circumstances and clinical effects of bites by white-tail spiders, including the two species Lampona cylindrata and L. murina commonly encountered by humans, and the incidence of necrotic lesions. DESIGN: Prospective cohort study of definite white-tail spider bites. Cases were only included if there was a clear history of bite, the spider was caught and was identified by an expert. SETTING: Calls to Australian poisons information centres and emergency departments. PATIENTS: 130 patients with a definite bite by a white-tail spider from February 1999 to April 2002. RESULTS: There were 79 bites by L. cylindrata and 51 by L. murina. Bites occurred in warmer months, 95% indoors and 75% between 16: 00 and 08: 00. The activity at the time of the bite was characteristic and the spider was encountered between bedclothes, towels or clothing. 25% of bites occurred on distal limbs. Pain/discomfort occurred in all cases, and was severe in 27%. Other effects included puncture marks (17%), redness/red mark (83%) and itchiness (44%). Systemic effects occurred in 9%. There were no cases of necrotic ulcers (97.5% CI, 0-2.8%) or confirmed infections. Median duration of effects was 24 hours (interquartile range, 1-168 hours). There were three distinct clinical patterns: pain only (21%), pain and red mark for < 24 hours (35%), and a persistent painful or irritating red lesion (44%). CONCLUSIONS: Bites by Lampona spp. cause minor effects in most cases, or a persistent painful red lesion in almost half the cases. White-tail spider bites are very unlikely to cause necrotic ulcers, and other diagnoses must be sought.
PMID: 12914510 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Article 2


Suspected white-tail spider bite and necrotic ulcers.

Isbister GK, Whyte IM.
Discipline of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Newcastle, Newcastle Mater Misericordiae Hospital, Waratah, NSW 2298, Australia. [email protected]
AIM: To describe the clinical features, investigation, diagnosis and treatment of ulcers attributed to white-tail (WT) spider bites or necrotic arachnidism. METHODS: The study was a prospective case series of patients referred to the Hunter Area Toxicology Service (a tertiary referral toxicology unit servicing a population of 500 000) with an ulcer or skin lesion that had been attributed to either a suspected WT spider bite or necrotic arachnidism. Eleven patients with skin lesions or necrotic ulcers were referred between January 2000 and June 2002. RESULTS: In two patients that were inpatients in other hospitals, investigation and follow up was not possible. In both cases there was no history of spider bite and Staphylococcus aureus was cultured. In nine patients, a diagnosis other than spider bite was made following appropriate investigation and follow up, including: (i) two cases of dermatophytoses, (ii) three staphylococcal infections, (iii) one case of pyoderma gangrenosum, (iv) one case of cutaneous polyarteritis nodosa, (v) one case of Nocardia braziliensis and (vi) one infected diabetic ulcer. There was only one case where the person recalled seeing a spider bite them, but the patient did not collect the spider for identification. The median time to diagnosis was 3 weeks (interquartile range: 3-9 weeks) and 3.5 years in one case. Appropriate treatment was initiated once the correct diagnosis was made and all cases resolved. CONCLUSIONS: In this series, all cases initially referred as WT spider bites or necrotic arachnidism were found to have alternative diagnoses with appropriate investigations. This demonstrates that spider bites are an unlikely cause of necrotic ulcers and that all ulcers should be properly investigated with bacterial, fungal and mycobacterial cultures and skin biopsy for histopathology.


article 3
Brown recluse spider

Two novel dermonecrotic toxins LiRecDT4 and LiRecDT5 from brown spider (Loxosceles intermedia) venom: from cloning to functional characterization.

da Silveira RB, Pigozzo RB, Chaim OM, Appel MH, Silva DT, Dreyfuss JL, Toma L, Dietrich CP, Nader HB, Veiga SS, Gremski W.
Department of Biochemistry, Federal University of São Paulo, São Paulo, Brazil.
Loxoscelism (the condition produced by the bite of brown spiders) has been reported worldwide, but especially in warmer regions. Clinical manifestations include skin necrosis with gravitational spreading while systemic loxoscelism may include renal failure, hemolysis and thrombocytopenia. The venom contains several toxins, of which the best biochemically and biologically studied is the dermonecrotic toxin, a phospholipase-D. Purified toxin induces cutaneous and systemic loxoscelism, especially necrotic lesions, hematological disturbances and renal failure. Herein, we describe cloning, heterologous expression and purification of two novel dermonecrotic toxins: LiRecDT4 and LiRecDT5. The recombinant proteins stably expressed in Escherichia coli cells were purified from culture supernatants in a single step using Ni(2+)-chelating chromatography producing soluble proteins of 34 kDa (LiRecDT4) and 37 kDa (LiRecDT5). Circular dichroism analysis evidenced correctly folding for toxins but differences in secondary structures. Both proteins were recognized by whole venom serum antibodies and by a specific antibody to dermonecrotic toxin. Also, recombinant toxins with phospholipase activity induced experimental skin lesions and caused a massive inflammatory response in rabbit skin dermis. Nevertheless, toxins displayed different effects upon platelet aggregation, increase in vascular permeability and not caused death in mice. These characteristics in combination with functional studies illustrates that a family of dermonecrotic toxins exists, and includes two novel members that are useful for future structural and functional studies. They will also be useful in biotechnological ends, for example, as inflammatory and platelet aggregating studies, as antigens for serum therapy source and for lipids biochemical research.
PMID: 17296256 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


article 4
Verified bites by yellow sac spiders (genus Cheiracanthium) in the United States and Australia: where is the necrosis?

Vetter RS, Isbister GK, Bush SP, Boutin LJ.
Department of Entomology, University of California, Riverside, 92521, USA. [email protected]
Spiders of the genus Cheiracanthium are frequently reported in review articles and medical references to be a definitive cause of dermonecrosis or necrotic arachnidism in humans. We provide 20 cases of verified bites by Cheiracanthium spiders from the United States and Australia, none with necrosis. A review of the international literature on 39 verified Cheiracanthium bites found only one case of mild necrosis in the European species C. punctorium. The basis for the suggestion that this spider genus causes dermonecrosis seems to be mostly inference from venom experiments in rabbits and guinea pigs, circumstantial spider involvement in human skin lesions, and repetitive citation of non-definitive reports in the medical literature. We discuss factors that lead to the erroneous elevation of virtually innocuous spiders to that of significant medical concern, which is a recurring problem in the medical community.
PMID: 16760517 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

There are about 400 different types of funnelweb with venom ranging from mild to bloody awful. I was bitten on the ???? once and it knocked me about for 5-6 days. Years have passed and I reckon now a bite in the same spot would have little effect on me at all. LOL.
Have also been bitten by a white tail on the neck. It went sort of weepy and crusty for around 3 months. A minor open wound that just wouldn't heal.

Not sure about youse guys spiders, but there have been documented cases of bites from brown recluses causing serve tissue damage here in Florida. At least the recluse is getting the blame for the bites. I'm not telling you some story that I heard from a guy who knows somebody who.... I'm relaying information that I personally saw aired in our local TV news complete with interviews with the people who had the problem and their doctors.

That said, what usually happens is people who get bit don't see a doctor, or keep the area clean and it gets infected. The infection spreads the spiders venom and things get very nasty real fast.

I'm always careful where I stick my hands given the number of strange things that like to inhabit cool dark places.

I can attest to the damage done by white-tip spiders.

My daughter sat on the ground and was bitten on her thigh by a white-tip in Hornsby Heights. Identified because she killed it.

The wound got hot and itchy, then infected and then necrotic as some of the respondents have said. There was basically little treatement available and she ended up with a hole in her thigh the size of a 50 cent piece after several months of horrible sores. It has healed to a certain extent, but she bears the scar for ever.