Thread: Welder helmet... DONT use the one provided by CIG!

Send a copy of your letter to your state's Workcover and also Consumer Protection Department -Workcover is probably the only thing that will worry CIG.

Department of Fair Trading may be more appropriate. This is a consumer item as well as a tool.

Yep, you bet, the ones that come with are crap.

When I bought my Hobart MIG in Canada, I bought it from a welding supply shop, not a home center, so it did not come with any gloves, or helmet etc. I got a decent auto darkening helmet tossed in on the deal for the welder.

I think that most of the Home center type of places have to include some sort of helmet with the units they sell, I don't know if that is a law, or if it is a policy of the home centers?

I agree that they should not package that crap with any welders.

I'm glad you got a MIG, unless you are doing a LOT of heavy duty welding, a lot of welding outside and or welding up a lot of really rusty crap steel, the MIG, IMHO is a way better way to go........ I've got both a MIG (200V with gas bottle) and an an arc welder, and I VERY rarely use the arc welder anymore.

Cheers!

That was the thing Stu I went and looked at what Bunnings (the home despot setup here) had and thought buggar those things for a joke... I had some money so decided to get the best I could... so I went to Perth Machinery and Tool Sales in Bunbury to get a good one... and here CIG is one of the best... and with the arc they included the crappy cardboard face mask and a hammer/wire brush thing no rods... with the mig they included the pathetic thin plastic face mask in halves inside the side opener along with the hammer/wire brush and a roll of gasless wire...

Honestly I couldnt believe that they could be allowed to get away with what passed for face masks! Still dont... I mean the book that came with it was over 3/4 full of stuff on safety and they give you something like that to protect your eyes and facial skin? Just stunned the hell out of me and now Ive moved on to the point of being furious. SAFTEY? MY BLOODY BUM!


*** Note PTMS (Perth Tool and Machinery Sales) are a reputable company fine service and fine tools no complaints whatever they in fact as I said warned me to buy another helmet... so they obviously KNOW that what CIG offer as helmets are unsafe and next to useless let alone dangerous to the user/purchaser.... and thats my one gripe with them... IF they KNOW that the damned things are crap WHY the hell dont they say something to CIG?... maybe they have? then why the hell dont they take a stand and tell them to shove their pathetic face masks?... I dont know if they have or they havent but its pathetic if they have and are still selling them with the things and its still pathetic if they havent done so yet KNOW theyre next to useless as a safety item!

DUTY OF CARE!!

1) PTMS has as the retailer a duty of care to the consumer they sell these products to that the product is safe and does comply with safety rulings and reality

2) CIG... has as the manufacture who has their brand stamped in whopping great white letters all over the thing have a DUTY OF CARE to the retailer AND most particularily the end user of their product to MAKE DAMNED SURE that the product AND any safety equipment meet and or go beyond any legislation regarding the safety equipment THEY SUPPLY!

3) The consumer has a DUTY OF CARE to make absolutely sure that the equipment provided as safety equipment IS safe to use is of a condition and made of material that the consumer themselves feel meet the needs to provide the consumer with a safe working environment...

3a) if that safety equipment is next to useless we have a DUTY OF CARE to make sure the two companies involved KNOW the issues so that they can have opportunity to address them

3b) we also have a DUTY OF CARE to our fellows in that if said safety equipment is found to be cheep nasty pathetic inadequate and next to useless that we inform our fellows of those facts

3c) We also have a DUTY OF CARE to ourselves to NOT USE THE DAMNED THINGS! and to find source and purchase more appropriate safety equipment so that any danger weather percieved or real can be negated before said danger becomes a reality.

The mig is a great thing... man I really do enjoy it!... but the helmets worry the living shyte out of me!... I took one look at the cardboard one that came with the arc and bought another I took one look at the flimsy thin one that came with the mig and used the other that I bought when that broke due to the thinness of the plastic used I bought another as soon as possible... what gives me the utter shytes with this is the thought that some poor buggins who wants to weld but knows no better gets stuck with these shyte things and ends up with buggared eyes and burnt skin and lets face it the manufacturer (CIG) and the retailer (in this case PTMS) dont care or ask if the purchaser KNOWS how to use them or the safe work practices or anything whatever about them for that matter I know for sure I was NOT asked any questions related to my possible competence or knowledge with these machines when I sought to buy it ... And those who havent used one before who didnt have the experiences of years ago when things like helmets were made SOLID TO PROTECT THE USER!... those blokes who are stuck due to the costs theyve shelled out to get the good CIG welder thats now cost them all their available money for the welder the rods the gauntlets the steel and theres nothing left in the kitty for ANOTHER helmet and so they use what they have been supplied... and get hurt for no other reason than CIG penny pinching in the safety area! an area they spend over 3/4 of the bloody instruction manual for the machine regaling you with!!

So this is a warning as well as a safety issue... just THINK if it appears too thin IT IS if it appears to be cardboard and to you not appropriate ITS NOT and dont damned well accept it!! YOUR EYES AND SKIN ARE AT STAKE! PROTECT THEM

For what it is worth - I wholly agree with Wild Dingo re a duty of care from manufacturers and retailers relating to equipment they market but also there are those who set the standards that have to be met and perhaps it is them we should also have in our sights to get it right.

Good point Baz

If the standard is set low then the manufacturers will meet that standard... as there is then no need to set a higher standard and by doing so incur higher costs... they are under no obligation legally or ethically to raise the standards they are only under obligation to meet the standard set... by keeping the standards low and the manufacturer keeping to that standard they put money over end user safety every time... the bottom line... and by sending overseas to places like China and Taiwan to have them made and assembled and even perhaps quality controlled is putting us the end user who pays the money (and not a cheep price either) at risk.

I think where I got angry was with the manufacturers handbook in this case CIG which went on and on quite literally for over 3/4 of the handbook about safety... and yet when it actually came to safety they themselves offer an unsafe face mask!... IF they were so concerned about end user safety they would NOT have included such risky "safety equipment" as these face mask/helmets... simply put their concern for end user safety would have told them that they were inadequate and they would not have included them.

So now I have more writing to do? damn!

What started out to be a simple complaint to CIG and the retailer and a warning here for anyone contemplating purchasing a welder is turning into a "campain"... ah well change is needed may as well have a burl at changing something thats wrong to make it right.

I think it was Martin Luther King Jnr (but I could be wrong) who once said "If your not part of the cure your part of the problem"

I have been welding now for 30 years so know something about this. A hand held helmet with no headband is a definite advantage in some stuations, so don't dismiss it out of hand. The cardboard one will work and will protect your eyes, but it is obviously not the choice of anyone for longevity and yes I have used one when needed. I was in BOC the other day to buy a head band for mine which broke after many years, a new complete helmet was cheaper by $3. They are a disposable thing so $15 and I throw it in the bin after 6 months is reasonable in my view. It is more important to get the correct lens for the helmet you are using and this gets forgotten, there are 3 lenses that vary from 9 to 12 and variables such as age, ambient light and welding current will dictate what you should use, this is the most important factor in a helmet. If you can't see the weld pool then you can't weld properly and never will.

I can see Dings point but to me it is not a huge issue, I would use the cardboard one with no worries. It will protect your eyes and BOC wouldn't supply it if it didn't. They have been around for years and are not new by any means, just not common. I don't think I have ever seen a BOC welder supplied with a trade grade helmet ever, we have always had to supply a better one, though I bet someone proves me wrong.

There are some basic principles and understanding here

Welding helmets like a million other things which are dangerous if not built correctly are manufactured to an Australian Standard. For the product to be saleable it should have a 5 ticks standards approved label. If it doesnt then dont buy it. Most product aren't required by law to have 5 ticks to be saleable but they may be required to be manufactured "in accordance" with the standard.

The people sitting on the standards committee are representatives of all those with vested interests ie manufacturers, users, authorities such as WorkCover and those with professional interests such as opthomologists (sp?). Generally these committees are stacked towards the manufacturers, one rep from a manufacturer such as BOC, one rep from a business council who also works for a manufacturer - you get the picture. A manufacturers view will be to have the greatest variation possible available to the public - from cheap crap at Bunnies for the home handyman who probably doesnt have sufficient skills or safety understanding to horrendously expensive full bells and whistles at Blackwoods. If all they could sell was one type then it would all come down to price and once manufacturers start fighting on price alone is when everybody starts going out of business.

The testing defined in a standard doesnt always represent true life situations. In the height safety standards the test dummy is made from wood and can't possibly be compared to a human body with the exception of weight which at 100 kg isnt truely representative of the maximum expected body size. People being flexible have a totally different outcome to a wooden dummy, but hey thats what the standard says.

Nothing changes in a standard unless there is consensus between all parties. 9 out of ten doesnt sway it, it has to be 10 out of 10 before a change will be made. Manufacturers want change only when it can be inforced by regulation.

In most cases Standards are really about getting a consistant product that all the manufacturers can produce to. That an industrial user with professional help can determine which level of product is the most appropriate for the required situation. A by product of this is generally an improvement in the safety of the product but not the sole reason for the exisitance of the standard. There some exceptions but these are not the norm - most standards which apply to goods used by children are far more orientated to safety than manufacture.

I am part of a Standards Committee - a sub group on the design of industrial clothing for the electrical industry. Basically I unimpressed by what Australian Standards want for this standard - which is yet to be finalised - as this standard is catering solely for the manufacturers without any consideration of what the user industries actually need. In the end it will be a WOFTAM as nothing of any value will be achieved. I as a specifying engineer I wont use the standard when selecting clothing as the testing requirements wont have any relationship to the power systems within Australia. But you cant tell standards or the manufacturers that - you can try but they dont listen.