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26th December 2020, 08:46 PM #1Senior Member
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Advice needed: What makes a good pen turning Lathe.
I need to replace a mini/midi wood lathe that was lost in a fire back in 2017. I bought it nearly 20 years ago to make dolls house furniture. It had a 3/4" keyless metal-working chuck and a "live" cup chuck on the tailstock. It had just 3 speeds that you selected by moving the drive belt into different grooves on a stepped pulley.
I'm going to give pens a try. At least I can still see things of that size.
Things have changer a bit since then and dolls house furniture is too fiddly for me now.
Question 1: Is variable speed really necessary or just a bit of a gimmick?
Question 2: Is a scroll chuck with "Pen jaws" worth the $200.00 plus or should I stick with the "spur drive" thing that most small lathes seem to come with?
Question 3:Tailstock, live (Rotating) or "Dead" (fixed?
There seem to be a few small lathes on the market today. Carbatec seem to be the cheapest and they are available through Total Tools who are local. Timbecon have two similar sized machine but with variable speed and different types of motor (One appears to be a universal brush motor, the other seems to be "brushless"). "Brushless" is more expensive. When I say "brushless" it could just be a standard induction motor with a VFD (variable speed drive).
And finally: Are tungsten tip tools worth the extra expense? I think they could well be worthwhile if you were turning "stabilised" pen blanks but I have no experience with them so I need expert advice.
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26th December 2020, 09:24 PM #2
Hilly, my take on this.
Variable speed is nice, but I turn and sand at full speed (3900rpm.) The only time, in pen turning, I use a slower speed is truing up the ends with 150mm faceplate and #80 disc.
Pen jaws are used when you drill the blank on the lathe. I have the Nova version for my SN 11's, the Vicmarc version looks ok as well. If you drill on a drill press, then you don't need them.
You can use a pen mandrel into a pen "saver" live centre or I use the "Turn between Centres Mandrel" from PSI.
I turn on a Woodfast M910, so cannot comment on the smaller lathes, although I use a Jet Mini lathe at woodclub for spindle demo's.
Also, you have to true up the ends, either with pen mills or abrasives.
Speaking of abrasives, there are so many on the market now. I use abranet to #600 and then Mico mesh to 12K, then Ubeaut EEE.
Finishes are another pandora's box.
I turn with a P & N 1/2 skew for all types of blanks. I have played with the TC tip tools, but find I get a better finish off the tool with my skew. Better finish off the tool = less time with abrasives.
Yes, some of the items I have linked to appear to be expensive, but I have tried most of the "cheaper" options and don't have time or inclination to promote substandard items.Pat
Work is a necessary evil to be avoided. Mark Twain
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26th December 2020, 10:23 PM #3
Having variable speed on a lathe for pen turning is certainly not necessary, I turned pens on a Record CL3 for about 20 years, mostly trying to do everything on the same speed ( much like Pat does ). But now that I have a variable speed lathe, I would be lost without it.
I bought a GPW Midi lathe that was a 6speed belt change type. I fitted my own 3 phase motor plus a VFD, I can go from 0-4000 rpm with a twist of the dial, perfect for penturning IMHO. If you can stretch the budget to get a proper electronic variable speed lathe, I think it’s worth the extra cost. The cheaper variable speed jobs will still have you changing belt speeds, as they ussually have 3 speed ranges .
A Chuck is handy, but not totally necessary. If you are prepared to learn how to turn pens between centres, all you will need is a dead centre for the drive, and a live centre for the tailstock. But most people start off with a pen mandrel and bushes.
A 4jaw Chuck and a drill chuck is handy if you want to drill your blanks on the lathe, but a drill press will do the job just as well for most pen work.
Penturning can be an expensive hobby, so exercise a bit of caution until you know it’s for you.Brad.
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27th December 2020, 02:00 PM #4
Our club brought one of these lathes to use for demonstrations in public places because we wanted something that was easy to transport. It is very light and handles small diameter items quite easily and can be carried by one person. It is well built and runs very smoothly, so makes it ideal for pen turning. From memory it does have the pulleys so you can change to the lower ratio for better torque but for pen turning you would only leave it on the high ratio all the time and just use the variable speed knob. One thing is the variable speed does not go to zero RPM and will always start at some minimum speed when you press the ON button. The morse tapers are 2MT and it has what seems to be becoming the standard in Aus M30 x 3.5 headstock thread.
I can't speak for the reliability or quality of the electronics as it has only been used a few times so far as we brought it not long before everything shut down but does come with a 5 year warranty.
There is also a manual speed change version of this for around $150 less.
Their next step up would be the equivalent of the "see everywhere" Woodfast. Our club has a manual Woodfast and an electronic one and neither has faulted over a number of years, just a bit heavy for people to transport around.
I have a variable speed lathe and like Brad says, would find it hard to go back to manual change. Mine gets used for all sorts of turnings not just pens, so the speed is up and down a fair bit but I only use the speed control knob for this, rarely change belt position.
I use the mandrel and Pen Saver centre like the one Pat linked to and find they are much better than the standard mandrel with nut and putting the live centre in the end. They are less likely to bend and you can put the pen saver right up against the end of your blank providing better support.Dallas
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27th December 2020, 02:23 PM #5Senior Member
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Thanks for the replies Pat and Ironwood,
Well, I might just have a look at the Carbatec lathe, it's within my price range and I think I could do a conversion to variable speed sometime in the future if I need to. The next thing on the list may well be some research on just how to turn a pen. There seems to be lots of goodies that each vendor deem to be absolutely essential to success in the pen turning game. Youtube should be full of info on pen turning, it's just sorting the grain from the chaff that could be the problem because there is some real crap out there.
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27th December 2020, 03:00 PM #6Senior Member
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28th December 2020, 07:18 AM #7SENIOR MEMBER
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one very important thing to look at is the alignment of the headstock and tailstock centres, they have to be spot on when turning pens or you will have issues with the end result.
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28th December 2020, 07:47 AM #8Senior Member
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Aaah yes, head and tailstock alignment and the problem of the tailstock flopping around in the ways and rails. It's definitely something I will check before I hand over my money and it's a worry when you live in a rural area. You can't actually check on the quality of the merchandise before you pay your money if you shop by mail and the cost of return freight is almost always more expensive for the return trip than when the goods came to you.
Thanks for the advice, I have lots of thinking to do.
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5th January 2021, 07:10 AM #9Senior Member
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Well, Carbatec are out of stock for a while so I went for the WL-14V from Hare and Forbes. I read somewhere that they had fixed the problems with the speed control module so things are looking good. Next problem will be tools. Having watched a lot of stuff on youtube, Pat's skew chisel could be a good place to start after I get plenty of practice.
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5th January 2021, 08:22 AM #10SENIOR MEMBER
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I bought the hafco Mini lathe over Xmas to get started. I don't have enough experience with it to comment substantively. I noticed the alignment was spot-on when I set it up, but noticed last night it had gone out a bit. Hopefully a matter of tightening up and adjusting.
One thing I will say is that while it's user friendly and seems to work well, the castings are very sharp all over and on the tool rest! I spend a while last night just filing off the edges you touch all over and the edges of the tool rest. I almost cut myself a few times just moving it around. Make that your first port of call!
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5th January 2021, 09:30 AM #11Senior Member
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Thanks for the warning Cgcc. One of the "benefits" of buying something like this is that you get to "customise" the machine so that it doesn't bite you and that all the bolts are tight. If we paid twice as much then we wouldn't have all the fun of doing all this work, now would we? I should find out how much fun I am going to have when it turns up next week.
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5th January 2021, 09:42 AM #12
Maybe not
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5th January 2021, 09:54 AM #13Senior Member
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Yes, I saw that post. I guess I will open the box carefully and save the packaging just in case it has to go back. I got the impression that H&F knew about the problem and had fixed the machines they had in stock. Perhaps I was wrong.
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8th January 2021, 08:12 PM #14Senior Member
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Well, a Hare & Forbes WL-14V turned up Yesterday, I spent this morning cutting and welding a mobile base for it, Got it out of the ute and onto the trolley this afternoon and perhaps tomorrow I will see if the electronics work as they should. Perhaps the lathe tools will turn up next week?
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6th April 2021, 12:59 AM #15Intermediate Member
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Had one for 12 months now and have had no problems turning about 100 pens and a couple of small boxes and bowls
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