Thread: Going backwards

I have 3 or 4 standard kits that I do, and that's it. If somebody wants a style that I don't have in stock, I will happily do it, but I will sell it to them at a price that reflects the cost of the kit, postage to get it to me (I order mostly from the US) etc. EIther that, ot it can wait until I need to restock on my standard kits and come in an order with them. Sometimes (often) the person will decide not to buy from me, but that's OK - if it's going to cost me money to make a pen for a stranger (different if it's a gift) then I don't really need the order that much.

Peter

i know the feeling well

i decided a couple of months ago that i was only going to spend the money that i make, this includes tools, kits, blanks and so on

i made a spreadsheet with income listed on one side and expenses on the other side with an available amount in the next column across, i also list what i sell/buy so that i know for future reference

so far so good, i still see stuff that i would love to have but i have been holdong to my budget pretty well, only once going over the limit but couldn't spend anymore until i got back out of the RED

this doesn't count only for pens, this is just a general craft thing all included into one, wood is cheap try doing leatherwork

interesting to know what everyone else does as well

MIK

Craft is HARD to sell, even though it is WORTH every cent, Time and Skill and outlay is often more than what you bring in. If you want to have cash flow, you must make el-cheapo kits and sell them cheap, and that gets the cash flow, but, usually there is not too much satisfaction for the maker.!
The general public does not care that you spent 3 hours dismantling a high end clip and making an Invisible clip and that you used a $30 blank on that $50 kit and then finished it with 30 minutes labour with a CA finish. They will say "it looks nice and buy the $15-$20 red gum slimline with a single coat of Shellawax finish.!!!
Occasionally there is that odd buyer who sees quality and wants quality, but by and large, it is the general thinking of get something "cheap", and if we, as the seller, take on the Asian mentality, "Well , they want cheap- they will get cheap", then we can feed the desire of the masses, and keep our hobby going.
Unfortunately the "bargain" hunter wants a quality item at YOUR expense, and we, to keep our addiction going, sell ourselves cheap! Unfortunately, that starts a chain reaction of forcing all to go cheap so that we can survive.
I think we need to take a realistic evaluation of the expenses, our skills and talents; then have the resolve to stick to our guns. That is my two bobs worth, Amos

I know exactly what you are talking about

I first started to make pens for me and SWMBO and then the demand for pens started to mount up but it is hard to get in front when your start behind. I get the opportunity to do some cash jobs every now and then so I decided that any money made doing these would go to my hobby and with this money I can buy different kits to try and put on display. I then stated to get some large corporate orders 50+ pens this gave me a real boost in the cash flow but that money always seems to go on the next big order.

It is a real balance that we must obtain and I think what MBUMIK has done is the best idea and that is to record every thing you spend or make money on and it will give you an idea were you sit.

If I did not get this extra cash injections I would still be a mad pen turner just for the love of it. I would however buy 1 E.B to try rather than 3 or 5 and I think I would make pens to order only exception the slimelines and streamlines. Either way this is my hobby and I have not herd of a hobby that does not cost money but if you get satisfaction out of your hobby as I do I consider it money well spent.

As for price I sell them at I do the cost x3 rule give or take (I hate prices $11.95 and the like just call $12)

That my two bob werth

i do agree with almost everything amos said

pricing is always a very hard thing to take into account with craft work and i think that most people don't put enough on their craft, 3X cost doesn't cut it in most cases because you are not taking into account that $30 blank that blew up when turning and the wasted bits while learning how to do a great finish, the power consumption in the shed, lights and lathe and drill and sander and bandsaw

you also have to remember that you are a manufacturer and you are selling at retail not wholesale, the 3X rule may work if you are selling to someone else to then retail your product

one must always allow for the people who oneday will come to me and say "can i sell these for you in my shop on commission" then you have to take 20-30% off your normal price then you are back to 2X cost

i put a price on mine that i would be happy with 30% less because there are a couple of places that are thinking about putting my pens in for xmas on commission basis

the only time i give discount is if the person buys 4 or more pens then it is just a bit off the total and not a %, reasoning - if the person is going to buy 4 or more pens then they like what they see, the discount is just a thankyou very much please come again and they walk away happy, if the person asks for discount then to me they are not really interested

selling your craft is always a tricky thing and you really need a good display of different kits and have some stock so that you can make that cigar in osage rather than red gum

just my further 2 bobs worth i hope it makes sense been typing between customers

MIK

Originally Posted by MBUMIK

selling your craft is always a tricky thing and you really need a good display of different kits and have some stock so that you can make that cigar in osage rather than red gum
MIK

I didn't mean to turn this into another "how do I make mone selling pens" discussion, as we've had lots of those before. I was more just wondering if others keep buying more stuff than they sell, regardless of the sale price, and if it eventually settles down where you have enough "on-hand" to meet your needs (or wants).

I think I'm still at the stage that you mention above, trying to build up a sample range of everything, which is why I'm alwasy buying more than I need.

For example, the lady at work currently wants some high quality Sierras. To date, I've only had the gold & chrome. So I tell her she can get Black Titanium or Titanium gold. She's having a hard time deciding from the ones I've shown here, and the few pictures of the better coatings I pulled out. So I figure I should have some actual samples to show her. So looking into the kit variations for better platings and what samples I'd need, including the Elegant Beauty style as well, since it's close to a Sierra, this is what I find I need to get samples of

- Dayacom Sierra Rhodium
- Dayacom Sierra Black Titanium
- Dayacom EB Rhodium/Black Ti
- Dayacom EB Ti Gold/Black Ti
- Timberbits Australiana EB Rhodium/Black Ti
- Timberbits Australiana EB Ti Gold/Black Ti
- Berea Sierra Platinum/Black Ti
- Berea Sierra Ti Gold/Black Ti
- Berea EB Platinum/Black Ti
- Berea EB Ti Gold/Black Ti

and that's still not probably all the variations.

Plus I need bushes for the EB's. Then since the Dayacom kits are a different size to the Sierra's (whereas Berea use the same hardware), I need a new drill bit, and extra tubes as well.

With the better quality Sierra kits pushing $20 each, that's a lot of money just for samples. Once I make them up and show her, she'll decide and then I'll have to put in another order for the actual kits she wants.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not begrudging anything. I could do it cheaper, make her pick the ones she wants from a picture, and only order what she wants. But variety is the spice of life to me, and I enjoy it. It's just hard on my limited hobby budget to keep up with the build up, which I hope one day will even out. But then, I guess I'll be bemoaning the "lack of variety" and wanting some new kits to come out

Russell.

OK Russell, talking from an addicts point of view or a hobbyist point of view---I am way over budget!
I have enough to keep me going for a while, but then someone shows a beautiful blank and addiction kicks in, or different kit and hobbyists enthusiasm kicks in.
Then you think, ok, I won't use these now but if someone wants one quickly I had better have some on hand - and it can get out of hand!!
So, somewhere down the line, sensible moderation has to come into it- that happens after you have already got everything on hand that you think will be enough?!!! Amos

sorry didn't mean to head off in a different direction the fingers get typing and the brain changes subject

i mentioned about my requiremnets for how i now buy kits but i would hate for SWMBO to see how much i spent on the stuff before i changed the way i do it now

part of my spreadsheet also includes a stock list of what i have in stock, when i use a kit i take 1 off the list, the next column is how many i would like to keep in stock as kits and the next column is what i need to order, now remember i am only using what i make so the numbers in the restock list never gets fullfilled at once, well not yet anyway, because i am still in the build up mode, i also have kits in that list that i would like to get my fingers on but not yet, i suppose you could call it a wish list

the biggest hole in the pocket is when starting out, so many kits and so little money

i only have 3 out of the 10 kits that you listed, 3 of the EB's you listed are the same colorings just different Manufacturers, why not just pick one and do that to start with

MIK

Hey Russell,

I hear where you are coming from, i try and use the 3x method of pricing, and if i get an order for 10 or more, I usually do an extra and throw that in, or knock a bit of the engraving (If they want engraving), My cheapest pen is a Streamline at $22.50 if I get the "I'll give you 15 or 20 bucks" I tell them to go to office works.
I usually only do Sierra's and Aussie EB's, I am also doing a few corporate batches of Europeans ( Laser Engraved with Company logo's) and Streamlines. I will do special orders of Junior Victor Roller and Fountain pen sets for Presentations, I try to have a range of about 6 styles and thats it, If you give the customer too many choices they get confused and go away and think about it and probably not come back.

Again my two bobs worth

HazzaB

Originally Posted by MBUMIK

i only have 3 out of the 10 kits that you listed, 3 of the EB's you listed are the same colorings just different Manufacturers, why not just pick one and do that to start with
MIK

Are you talking about the Berea EB vs the Dayacom EB? In actual fact, they are different (if the photo's are correct) because the platings are swapped around. E.g. The Ti Gold is on the nib on one, and it's on the section behind the nib on the other.

Hope that's what you were referring to.

Russell.

I think you first need to think why you are making pens.
To make money. love of pens. because you enjoy turning e.t.c

If you are making pens because you love making them I do not think you will ever get in front (I definitely will not) because you love your craft/hobby and no matter whether you never sell another pen you will keep making them.

If you are trying to make money then you need to look at it from a business point of view and operate like a business. You are buying all these samples for someone who may turn around and say no I think I will go with a BIC pen sorry, and you have invested all this time and money for nothing. That is not good business.

I will never be in front that is why I use my cash job money (IT keeps the minister for finance of my back) I think as long as you are enjoying making pens and can pay the rent and put food on your table go for it.
If you want to keep it in check then start a spreed sheet like MIK but as I said first think about why you make pens and from there you should find the answers you are looking for.

Originally Posted by BoomerangInfo

Are you talking about the Berea EB vs the Dayacom EB? In actual fact, they are different (if the photo's are correct) because the platings are swapped around. E.g. The Ti Gold is on the nib on one, and it's on the section behind the nib on the other.

Hope that's what you were referring to.

Russell.

i haven't looked at the photos, i just went by the descriptions listed, my mistake

Russell I know what you are feeling hehe, happens to me every week . I will say this though over a year of selling pens at the local craft market I have made enough to cover all costs including startup costs ,because I am flexable in pricing I sell about 10-20 pens per week on average , I enjoy the production of pens ,but knowing my market have to keep costs as low as possible ,anything over $50 is hard to sell .On the other hand I can't sell the more profitable "slims" for $20 . I look at the overall picture ,may not be business like but as an example ,last Sunday made enough to go buy a $600 14" bandsaw which seemed to be becoming a necessity ,and the same with most tooling I have bought . If you take an individual pen and price it for its "true" worth it will make you cry hehe, If we could go into a pen "superstore" and buy one offs of what we actually need ,then that would be great, as it is we have postage on top of almost all items ,means we don't buy one offs, to help spread the costs per Item,and of course we need different things from different places ,so bulk orders are also hard to organise . My time is my own ,the gov supports me to an extent, so I could sit and do nothing all day ,making pens satisfies a lot of things for me ,and in the end it pays me as well hehe. Cheers ~ John .