Thread: CA Finish - what am I doing wrong??

Do not use Glen20. David has the correct activator now.

Glen 20 makes it go white, you should be ok with proper activator or wait till it dries.

Ok, cheers, what should the correct activator be?

Originally Posted by Arry

Hi

Well I made my first ever pen today, (after the first two attempts were fails) and I am very proud.

Congrats welcome to the addiction =), many of us have been through the same process, more than once, and believe me it wont be your last.

Please tell me what I am doing wrong with the following:

I sanded the pen blanks to 600 grit after I had finished on the lathe and it looked great.

Yup, as it should, you get an inkling of what the final will look like at this point, exciting aint it =) so much temptation to rush it and get it done.

I then put a few drops on each one with the CA glue that I bought from Carbatec.

Good stuff the CA brought from any source as long as you know what your working with..ie:thin medium or thick, and their respective drying/cure times are and your method of applying is happy for you...your set.

At this stage it looked great, then I spayed a light sprays with Glen 20 as per video of sponsor www.Timberbits.com and is started to go white.

I wasn't a convert, and after the issues some had i didnt even try it as an alternative, i think personally its a lot to ask of a deodoriser to do the job of an activator designed specifically for a CA product, even though the research and other pointers are there for the experts to deal with i think its in the realm of "experts are best to try this and remedy as they see fit" kind of thing, not so great for one starting out. But that is just my personal opinion, and experience, whitch is limited in the glen 20 arena.

I didn't panic as I knew it would do that.

You watched the video too, good, shows your thinking and researching your methods.

I continued to do this for approx 10 more coats and it was really white.

This is the remedy area where an expert / trained / experienced eye can recover from..

I then started to worry, so I started to sand it with 600 grit wet and dry and went all the way to 1200 grit.

Dont pannick, but taking the last used grit back onto a different material and that of only a thin coating i'd expect that you just sanded all your coatings off....stay with me here please, i'm not making fun of you, just trying to highlight some things.

By this stage all the white was gone but so was the finish.

So back to bare wood..righty ohh then =)

I then buffed it with EEE Ulta Shine.

I have this product, and i love it, but for different reasons, think of it in terms of liquid sandpaper that changes its grits from your last...up to a range of grits you could never possibly get in paper backed sandpaper, it is not a finish unto itself, it can be if you like the satin look and natural lustre the naked timber has sanded to such a beutifully fine degree, but even Neil (ubeaut) will tell you that a eee finish looks truly better under a "glow" or "wax" or other type of polish. So in this aspect you didnt "buff it" with eee, you continued sanding...again please stay with me here and read through, i do try and adress this stuff with info lower down.

Basically looks dull as there was no finish.

see above...

I then tried to make a second pen and then same thing happened.

yup, if you follow the same process, and carry out the same operations i'd expect the results to remain consistent.

Can someone please help this pen making newbie.

I'll try, go and rewatch david from timberbits video about applying CA, not the glen 20 or steam one, the original, you'll notice he uses an activator, this is from a product called mitre fix whitch he and others now stock, keep in mind a few things, his humidy level and yours respectivly, and ammount he uses, etc etc, keep thinking about it, thin CA when used on a pen in brisbane takes about hmm maybe 15 - 30 seconds to "go off" depends on the day for me, but i'd wait a full 2 minutes between coats and not use the activator at all untill recently and i understood the products a bit better, start off with your ca of choice and get used to the wait times between coats, you'll find you will get used to it rather quickly, focus on your apply method first, then introduce your activator at a later point when you have a better "feel" for it. This way you'll use what CA you have learning it, then you can progress to the next level descisions based on your own experiences for yourself, without being immediatly out of pocket, dont worry about the activator at all for the present, use the 2minutes between coats to focus on what your doing.

Next up, in applying the CA, you're coating the wood with a plastic, essentially, different working properties, different finishing tequniques, but once you have layered up your CA, and its clear for each coat, you really want to just superfine abrasive it to take out any ripples or blemishes very carefully, this is why i start this stage at MM (micromesh) wet, then proceed up to a super light metal polish (brasso)(really still an abrasive, but a constant grit) and finally a superfine cut and polish (still an abrasive, however this one has a wax included)....and then...finally....a buff or polish...then you should have a pen clear coated gleaming in its plastic coated glory. These steps, on the plastic coats of CA, have a low heat build up, whitch if you used a product like EEE whitch can get high on the heat scale, will break down the CA rapidly, so these steps, will reduce that likelyhood.

Anyways hope this was of some help, best of luck, and hope to see you post some pens, i saw and commented on some of your lathe queries, and i think if there's anyone near you who does a CA pen, then you'd be doing yourself a favour by going to see them and their methods first hand, and dont be afraid to ask them anything and everything, best of luck buddy, it takes a while be patient.

Cheers

Neal.

Arry

As Neal said, the correct accelerator to use is Mitre Fix. It is available from a number of forum sponsors or can be purchased direct from GSB Chemicals in Melbourne for $14-30 a box plus postage. A minimum of 6 boxes applies. It comes with a can of accelerator and a medium CA.

It is a good idea to use a thin CA (available from forum sponsors) for at least the first coat to allow it to sink into and seal the timber. Then you can either continue with thin CA or a medium or thick CA. I only use the medium CA to fill in any dips/holes/chips in the timber and then go back to thin CA. If no dips/holes/chips then its thin CA all the way. I find it easier to use as the thicker CA can build up a wave/ripple effect on the blank if you don't spread it quickly and thoroughly. Still, many prefer the thicker CA. Its just a personal thing. After applying the CA I use MM to sand the blank and finish off with a Canurba wax polish.

How I apply 20 thin coats of CA as a finish « TimberBits Blog

Many thanks guys, especially Neal for the lengthy reply.

Gee tks for the info, Neal. Im in the same position as Arry, and was about the try the Glen 20... You may have just saved me a frustrating session in the shed !!! What I love about this forum... so many of you with experience and tips to share with us mere mortals !!!

Good luck Arry... and hope you have success with the next lot.

Jenny

I have been speaking with David from Timberbits and he still uses Glen 20.

He has mastered the technique though probably through lots of trial and error I would guess at.

I think I will go back and try it again although I am not sure on the CA I am using whether it is thin, thick etc.

Are there any other finishing techniques besides CA that others prefer or use?

Cheers

I was out in the shed making a pen and I thought stuff it, lets try someting.

I just put on my first coat of WOP...

I will put a few coats on and then use say EEE and see how it comes up.

Arry

WOP gives a brilliant finish. Give it about 6 coats and let the blank dry vertically over something that holds it off the deck a bit. I use concrete spaghetti (plugs) covering a screw through a board. The tube is held up a bit from the board by the spaghetti. This allows any excess WOP to drip off the bottom of the blank. Les has a different method and you will find it in the tutorials. I would not use EEE on WOP. When the WOP is hardened (give it a day or so) just use MM - 6000 grit to 12000 grit (Les' tutorial) and then polish it with Carnauba wax (Bunnings has it). It will shine like a mirror.

You can also try Nitrocellulose laquer combined with thiners to get a mirror like finish too but you need to build a jig to suspend the blanks. Both WOP and Nitro are slow processes compared to CA but I think you get a slightly better finish. I have photos of the drying gear I made if you want them.

Good luck

WOP has a very long (compared to CA) cure time mate, be sure to read the tin, and i think its adhesion properties between coats is somewhat less, its very thin too, i found it doesn't enter the wood grains as much as the ca seems to, again for me. I've a tin of it myself but have only ever used it once, the ca is just too convenient for me. I'd agree with greg too, eee would cut away the WOP fast.

As for other finishes in wood, depending on the wood itself, large grain or small grain structures will differ in the way they take in a finishing medium, similar difference for naturally oily woods.

Some of the alternative methods are, huts (a wax finish from a stick), waxes (generally incl beeswax / carnuba waxes / other mixes), DO (danish oil), BLO (boiled linseed oil), mineral oil (basically castor oil), also the liquid finishes the U-beut range (i like the glow) has on offer. A lot depends on the wood itself, how far you take the sanding process, and what your looking to achieve, satin / gloss / semi gloss / matt / foodsafe / kidsafe / etc. just to name a few. Forgot to mention the nitrocelulose laquer too.

Neal.

cheers guys, yeah true the wait time between coats is about 2-3 hours I think from memory

What is MM?

Micro Mesh. A sanding system, sold in a convenient little pack almost made for us pen guys. it begins at 1500 grit if i recall, and goes up to beyond what the naked eye can see, i forget its final grit. double sided, useable wet or dry (most use wet) and reuseable and serviceable, available from most all of the pen suppliers, and forum sponsors.

Here's one of the forum sponsor's links for you.

http://www.thesandpaperman.com.au/so...-mesh-kit.html

Neal.