Thread: CA finishes

Hi Tiger First off you do not need Accelerator fo any CA it just means you can move through the process quicker. Before you do anything watch Davids (Timberbits) videos that are on his blog on his website it will answer many of your questions. Have a look and then get back to us if you still need answers.
I have just checked out the video you are talking about and it is nothing like how I do it. I cannot believe he wants you to sand of each coat as you put it on so check out the finishing on davids blog

http://www.timberbits.com/blog/?p=194

Cheers Ian

Hi Ian,

I had watched Timberbits video and no doubt it's a great finish but there is so much variation with the applications. I'm just after the quickest, cleanest and most foolproof application. Also wouldn't it get a little expensive with the thin CA, applying it 20 times means you'll go through a few bottles.
I thought the same as you when I saw the woodworking guild video about sanding b/w each application but that's how I did it and I got a reasonable sheen, not as good as Timberbits though.

[QUOTE=Tiger;1479254]Hi Ian,

I'm just after the quickest, cleanest and most foolproof application. Also wouldn't it get a little expensive with the thin CA, applying it 20 times means you'll go through a few bottles.

Hey Tiger. I can get at least 15 pens per $7.50 bottle of thin CA, and I always apply 20 coats. If you can't be bothered spending the time to learn how to do a quality finish, then maybe just quickly dip them in a can of varnish and hang them up to dry, that will only take 10 seconds per pen.

Originally Posted by Tiger

Hi Ian,

I had watched Timberbits video and no doubt it's a great finish but there is so much variation with the applications. I'm just after the quickest, cleanest and most foolproof application. Also wouldn't it get a little expensive with the thin CA, applying it 20 times means you'll go through a few bottles.
I thought the same as you when I saw the woodworking guild video about sanding b/w each application but that's how I did it and I got a reasonable sheen, not as good as Timberbits though.

Hi Tiger you do not have to put 20 coates of CA ( I don't) I only do 10 + depending on how the timber is holding the finish but remember as you said in the quote that guy from the US looks like he got a REASONABLE finish but If I am going to all that effort to make the best pen I can I certainly don't want a reasonable finish I will be wanting a great finish. Remember if you cut back to save money then you as the saying says
"Get what you pay for"

There is always the finish that parris said (Dipping) would have to be cheaper or cheaper still just spray Varnish

Cheers Ian

It seems to me that in part, the reason why some applications use 20 coats and some use only 3 is that the 20 coat method uses a lighter CA while the 3 coats uses a medium or thick CA. I'm just trying to understand the process but will continue to experiment.

The process that I am using now, I put 2 or 3 coats of thin CA then I go to medium and put another 3 or 4 coats. I use the closed cell foam sheet as an applicator so I waste minimal CA.
I can get quite a thick buildup this way, then it just needs sanding back down to size and polishing. I have been letting it cure for 24 hours before I sand now, as I think the final finish benefits from this.

Originally Posted by Tiger

It seems to me that in part, the reason why some applications use 20 coats and some use only 3 is that the 20 coat method uses a lighter CA while the 3 coats uses a medium or thick CA. I'm just trying to understand the process but will continue to experiment.

Hi Tiger. There are lots of ways to skin a cat. Some are better than others. Pens invariably get banged and knocked around during the course of their lives, and hence, require a degree of hard shell-like armor for their outer skin. If you want a pen to withstand the onslaught of being bitten on, and chucked around on a desk, then you have to put the time and effort into perfecting a decent HARD shiny skin. You can just put a 'Lazy' coat of wax on the pen, but the poor bugger that pays $30- $200 for it will not be happy when his pen looks like crap after a couple of months. You have to try and shoot for a Rolls Royce, not settle for a KIA. We 'pen makers' are a perfectionist lot, in that we try to learn, and create the BEST possible writing instruments we can. Our BEST efforts displayed to our Peers. Enough of my rant. Have fun guys.

Tiger

You have to use MM and then a polish to finish a CA covered pen to get that real lustre. Even though MM is a fine sanding agent it does cut back several layers of CA which is really only wafer thin. Therefore, when you have finished your polishing you still have a good layer of CA on the pen. I am not a chemical scientist but the more coats of any clear sealer you apply with give you that depth of vision and show up the wood to a greater degree. The same applies to coats of paint. As a general statement that is why a Rolls Royce paint job is lustrous as opposed to a Daewoo. If you want a Rolls Royce finish then you need to take the time to apply it. If you want a Daewoo, then so be it.

Ok so I've been experimenting with what materials I have at hand. I realise that pens need a decent exterior because they are constantly handled - that's what has taken me to the CA. For years I've used Shellawax, Rustin's plastic coating and other finishes, except for the Rustins the other finishes have faded.
Now back to experimentation. I wanted to try the BLO/CA finish.I didn't have any BLO on hand so I used Danish Oil as that contains BLO, I tried it with some thick CA - result inconclusive because the thick CA has gone off.
Then I tried the light CA method, I didn't have any accelerator so I used Glen 20, this didn't work, just got the milky white finish. I then resorted to multiple coats of light CA but no accelerator so waited until the tackiness was gone before applying the next coat - this gave the best result but was the more time-consuming method.
The BLO/CA method looked great, 3 coats and no sanding but I've got to get some medium CA and then assess its value.

When I CA I don't count the Coats. I turn my blanks down .10-.15mm below the Finished size by measuring the component piece w/ my Digital Calipers ($9.99 at Harbor Freight here in the US). Once I have my desired size I build back to about .10mm over the size of said component. I wet sand at 600grit until I am at .05mm and make sure all the ridges are gone and the blank is smooth. If it is not I add a few more coats of CA. Once I have the blanks at .05mm and it is smooth I move through the MM to 12k then I use Huts Ultra High Gloss finish, many use car polish. If you simply count the coats you have no way of knowing how thick your finish is because you don't know what you had to sand off to get it back to the right size. With my way I know I have a .10mm thick finish on my pens which has stood the test of time so far.

Now for what CA. I typically apply a few coats of thin until it starts to build up on the wood then I finish off w/ Medium. I use accelerator and if you do I highly recommend an aerosol over a pump. Aerosol will give a super fine mist while a pump can send a drop onto your pen and create a white spot.


Edit:
One thing I would also like to add. I allow my CA Finish to cure no less than 24 hours before I begin polising. I have had pens smooth as glass but when I grab them a few days later there are small dips in it. I feel this is where the CA was thicker and not completly cured when I polished and while it offgased it shrank a little. Since I started waiting I have not had this issue.

I don't do much CA finishing any more with the new MINWAX products available, but when I do use a CA finish this method works great for me.

Les

Thats a good tutorial Les. I do things a little differently, but basically its much the same method I use.
I have also stopped using MM, I sand to 600 w&d, then use 0000 steelwool, then I polish with Brasso, sometimes I will use the Hut plastic polish after the Brasso.

As Chris described why he leaves his 24 hours before sanding and polishing, I do the same, for the same reasons. I found with blanks which have small voids, such as burls, you will end up with low spots in your finish once it cures fully if you sand and polish straight away. I have noticed a big difference in the quality of my CA finish since doing this.
Every little improvement adds up to a better finish.