Thread: CA turning white on pens after a few hours - any ideas why?

I am not a pen turner, although it is a classic sign of moisture getting under CA

Yep, sounds like moisture. But could also be something else.
List all your steps, from sanding the timber blank, right up to the end of the finishing process. That way we can help you troubleshoot it properly.
A couple of clear photos of the finished pen showing the white spots would also help.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Yep, sounds like moisture. But could also be something else.
List all your steps, from sanding the timber blank, right up to the end of the finishing process. That way we can help you troubleshoot it properly.
A couple of clear photos of the finished pen showing the white spots would also help.

I suspect you are right, and the exact step where that might be happening will become obvious below

Because there are so many little steps and one step could easily be missed I've actually created a written procedure and have (hopefully) cut and pasted the relevant part below -

1. Sand the blank(s) from 120 to 400 or 600 grit sandpaper – don’t reuse sandpaper that has been used on a different wood species as it will cross-contaminate/stain the timber. Use maximum speed and light pressure when sanding. Carefully check the blank(s) for scratches before moving to the next grade of sandpaper as the clear CA glue gloss coating will highlight any scratches
2. Turn off the dust extractor and move the hood well out of the way
3. Remove the pen blank(s) and metal bushings from the mandrel and reset using the plastic bushings as the CA glue won’t stick to these
4. Important – wash your hands now!
5. Place two layers of the Viva paper towel on the bed of the lathe to catch any glue
6. Fold 3 sheets of Viva paper towel up and cut each folded sheet into 7 strips (six cuts per sheet)
7. Use a strip of paper towel to remove the fine sawdust off the pen blank(s)
8. Keep wearing the PAPR and Helmet as the glue fumes can really sting the eyes like hell!
9. Turn the lathe down to 150-200 rpm
10. Apply the first coat of thin CA glue – three drops to a one piece plank, two drops to each piece of a two piece blank and spread with the paper towel then instantly turn the lathe to full speed to throw off excess glue and spray with the instant accelerator
11. Repeat this until there are at least 10 coats of thin CA glue and then switch to medium CA glue and add a further ten coats
12. With the lathe set to 1500 rpm use wet Micromesh to buff the coating – use the 1500 grit for a fair while firstly, then work through the other grits up to 12000 grit
13. Then use Brasso on a rag for the final buffing of the blank(s)
14. Remove the blanks and bushings from the pen mandrel
15. Gently rotate the ends of the blanks on some 600 grit sandpaper to remove any CA glue from the ends

Could be the "instant accelerator..." you haven't said what brand you're using?

All accelerants are not equal; a cheap way to make it is to just dilute Baking Soda in water.

I'm not saying that your accelerant IS made this way, but some less scrupulous manufacturers...

You can make the stuff work, but you need a different application technique. Basically applying the three drops, cranking up the speed and applying the accelerant while still buffing firmly with the towel until the surface begins to heat up, which disposes of excess moisture. Much like applying Shellawax or GLO.

Not recommended if you're building up a deep finish as the heat can cause micro-fractures in the existing coats. But more than good enough if you're just applying a protective coat or two over an epoxy inlay, for example.

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

Could be the "instant accelerator..." you haven't said what brand you're using?

All accelerants are not equal; a cheap way to make it is to just dilute Baking Soda in water.

I'm not saying that your accelerant IS made this way, but some less scrupulous manufacturers...

You can make the stuff work, but you need a different application technique. Basically applying the three drops, cranking up the speed and applying the accelerant while still buffing firmly with the towel until the surface begins to heat up, which disposes of excess moisture. Much like applying Shellawax or GLO.

Not recommended if you're building up a deep finish as the heat can cause micro-fractures in the existing coats. But more than good enough if you're just applying a protective coat or two over an epoxy inlay, for example.

Am using the Gary Pye accelerator which I think is made by BSI. I did two more pens tonight but deleted the "wash hands" step and there doesn't appear to be any repeat of the white problem so fingers crossed that's what it was.

Ok, nothing too glaringly obvious there, unless you are handling the blank with wet hands. If you are, then that’s probably the problem.
Use of accelerater can give you white spots or frosting of the finish. You really do need to be careful with it, I don’t like using those bottles with the top that you press down and it pumps out a squirt of the product. They don’t spray a fine enough mist. I prefer an aerosol spraycan.
If you are flinging off excess CA each coat, you are applying far too much. I use craft foam cut into strips to apply the CA, a drop or two on the craft foam is all that’s needed for each coat, doing it this way 99.9% of the CA ends up on the blank, no wastage. 5 or 6 coats of BSI Gold thin, gives me plenty of thickness.
The BSI Gold is odourless, so you don’t get those nasty fumes, and it doesn’t seem to frost like the cheaper stuff.
GPW sells it in the medium thickness, but I can’t seem to get that to work for me, it’s too thick for my liking. I buy the thin from hobby shops on eBay.
I think the Mercury Flex might be a similar product, but I have never used it to compare, another penturner told me he didn’t think it was as good as the BSI product.

Another cause of moisture, can be your timber blanks not dry enough. Are you sure you are using dry enough timber for your pens ?

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Ok, nothing too glaringly obvious there, unless you are handling the blank with wet hands. If you are, then that’s probably the problem.
Use of accelerater can give you white spots or frosting of the finish. You really do need to be careful with it, I don’t like using those bottles with the top that you press down and it pumps out a squirt of the product. They don’t spray a fine enough mist. I prefer an aerosol spraycan.
If you are flinging off excess CA each coat, you are applying far too much. I use craft foam cut into strips to apply the CA, a drop or two on the craft foam is all that’s needed for each coat, doing it this way 99.9% of the CA ends up on the blank, no wastage. 5 or 6 coats of BSI Gold thin, gives me plenty of thickness.
The BSI Gold is odourless, so you don’t get those nasty fumes, and it doesn’t seem to frost like the cheaper stuff.
GPW sells it in the medium thickness, but I can’t seem to get that to work for me, it’s too thick for my liking. I buy the thin from hobby shops on eBay.
I think the Mercury Flex might be a similar product, but I have never used it to compare, another penturner told me he didn’t think it was as good as the BSI product.

Another cause of moisture, can be your timber blanks not dry enough. Are you sure you are using dry enough timber for your pens ?

I suspect that I may not have dried my hands thoroughly enough and that was the source of the moisture.

Which aerosol spray can of accelerator do you use? I've never seen it in a spray can - only in those horrible pump packs which seem to leak quite often.

Is Craft Foam an EVA foam?

These blanks are certainly dry enough, I've turned others that I thought might be a bit marginal but they turned out OK.

@

Originally Posted by RSD

I suspect that I may not have dried my hands thoroughly enough and that was the source of the moisture.

Which aerosol spray can of accelerator do you use? I've never seen it in a spray can - only in those horrible pump packs which seem to leak quite often.

Is Craft Foam an EVA foam?

These blanks are certainly dry enough, I've turned others that I thought might be a bit marginal but they turned out OK.

I think this is the same sort of product EC Foam Sheets Assorted Pack | Eckersley's Art & Craft
I got mine at a craft shop locally, but I have also seen them at on of the $2 shops here.
The CA doesn’t soak into this stuff, so it all goes on your pen.
I use Loctite 7471 activator https://www.repco.com.au/en/car-care...337/p/A9435962
I get for about $16 at a local tool shop.
I use it a bit different to most people. I put the first coat of CA on and let it dry, only takes about 2 minutes ussually, I keep my dust extraction going for the whole process. Then with the lathe running slowly, I set mine at about 100rpm for the complete CA process. I hold the can about half a meter away and give it a quick 1 or 2 second burst across the spinning blank, put the can down, pick up the foam strip, put a couple of drops of ca on it and apply it to the blank , back and forth with very light pressure, until I get a feel of slight drag on the foam, quickly take it off the blank or it will roughen up the smooth finish. Leave it go off for a few minutes, then repeat.
I measure the build thickness with verniers, and keep adding coats until I am 0.1 - 0.2mm bigger diameter than the metal pen fittings, once I sand and polish, I am back down to the same size as the fittings. I do all this between centres, I rarely use any bushes at all these days.
This is certainly not the only way to do it, but it’s what I have slowly developed to, and found it works consistently for me, your mileage will certainly differ depending on your humidity, and your own technique.

I have storms here, and keep losing power, so I will post this quickly before I lose it again.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

@
I think this is the same sort of product EC Foam Sheets Assorted Pack | Eckersley's Art & Craft
I got mine at a craft shop locally, but I have also seen them at on of the $2 shops here.
The CA doesn’t soak into this stuff, so it all goes on your pen.
I use Loctite 7471 activator https://www.repco.com.au/en/car-care...337/p/A9435962
I get for about $16 at a local tool shop.
I use it a bit different to most people. I put the first coat of CA on and let it dry, only takes about 2 minutes ussually, I keep my dust extraction going for the whole process. Then with the lathe running slowly, I set mine at about 100rpm for the complete CA process. I hold the can about half a meter away and give it a quick 1 or 2 second burst across the spinning blank, put the can down, pick up the foam strip, put a couple of drops of ca on it and apply it to the blank , back and forth with very light pressure, until I get a feel of slight drag on the foam, quickly take it off the blank or it will roughen up the smooth finish. Leave it go off for a few minutes, then repeat.
I measure the build thickness with verniers, and keep adding coats until I am 0.1 - 0.2mm bigger diameter than the metal pen fittings, once I sand and polish, I am back down to the same size as the fittings. I do all this between centres, I rarely use any bushes at all these days.
This is certainly not the only way to do it, but it’s what I have slowly developed to, and found it works consistently for me, your mileage will certainly differ depending on your humidity, and your own technique.

I have storms here, and keep losing power, so I will post this quickly before I lose it again.

I was lucky enough to find a can of the Bob Smith aerosol activator on ebay so ordered that today, hopefully it might make it here by the weekend.

Will have another play later tonight now that things have cooled down a bit - we've had a few warm days in Melbourne.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

@
I think this is the same sort of product EC Foam Sheets Assorted Pack | Eckersley's Art & Craft
I got mine at a craft shop locally, but I have also seen them at on of the $2 shops here.
The CA doesn’t soak into this stuff, so it all goes on your pen.
I use Loctite 7471 activator https://www.repco.com.au/en/car-care...337/p/A9435962
I get for about $16 at a local tool shop.
I use it a bit different to most people. I put the first coat of CA on and let it dry, only takes about 2 minutes ussually, I keep my dust extraction going for the whole process. Then with the lathe running slowly, I set mine at about 100rpm for the complete CA process. I hold the can about half a meter away and give it a quick 1 or 2 second burst across the spinning blank, put the can down, pick up the foam strip, put a couple of drops of ca on it and apply it to the blank , back and forth with very light pressure, until I get a feel of slight drag on the foam, quickly take it off the blank or it will roughen up the smooth finish. Leave it go off for a few minutes, then repeat.
I measure the build thickness with verniers, and keep adding coats until I am 0.1 - 0.2mm bigger diameter than the metal pen fittings, once I sand and polish, I am back down to the same size as the fittings. I do all this between centres, I rarely use any bushes at all these days.
This is certainly not the only way to do it, but it’s what I have slowly developed to, and found it works consistently for me, your mileage will certainly differ depending on your humidity, and your own technique.

I have storms here, and keep losing power, so I will post this quickly before I lose it again.

Ironwood - do these look like the same sort of foam?
Creatology Foam Basic Sheets
Creatology Basic Foam Sheets

They seem to be like the stuff I use , mine are about A4 size sheets, and from memory they are around 1.5-2mm thick. You won’t want anything thicker than 2mm.
I’m not at home so I can’t measure mine at the moment.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

They seem to be like the stuff I use , mine are about A4 size sheets, and from memory they are around 1.5-2mm thick. You won’t want anything thicker than 2mm.
I’m not at home so I can’t measure mine at the moment.

Cheers Ironwood - off to Spotlight I go!