Thread: Dipping problems

Maybe it was the micromesh to fine it looks like it's not sticking. how long do you dip them for, I have left some in for 30mins if there is air bubbles coming out (not from the tube). Try dipping them again with the air pocket up the top so the air comes out. Good luck.
David

I'm having the same problem with cracks forming, but they're right on the edge, not down the length. Annoying, isnt it?

Thought the lacquer was too thick, so I thinned it 2:1. Same thing happened only it took ages to build up a finish.

I'm now thinking that if I use a sanding sealer I can help the lacquer bond to the surface. Got a barrel ready with NC sealer just havent had a chance to do the dipping yet.

I have no experience with the method but wonder if the cracks are in the finish before removing the bolts and bushings? If not, could the finish be cracking as the bushings come off by some flexing or twisting when the nuts are removed? Maybe too tight to begin with?

Pete

I have only tried two pens in the dipping method,
I only had some old satin Estapol on hand, so thinned it 2:1.
I only sanded to 600 grit.
Wiped the blank over with Metho,
Dipped the blank once a day for four days.
Left two days to fully harden.
Then care fully scored the bush about 4-5 mm away from the pen, then move closer and scored on the line where the lacquer had lifted slightly from the first cut until I was about 1/2mm from the pen then removed the bush.
I then sanded the ends with one of Big Sheds Sanding mills.
The only problem I had was on the sierra the finish was to thick on the bottom end of the blank , either from the Estapol from being to old or not being thinned enough.

Special thanks to Rhossack and Danger Mouse for their help and advice

You have me stumped also...never had that problem...they almost look like stress cracks, as if there was a little glue or something in the tube when the hardware was pressed in place, except you didn't assemble the one...about the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the temp was too cool when dipped and a heat change occured to cause the cracks...

I can tell you that you dont have to super fine sand the blanks before dipping, I go to about 400 grit then burnish with 0000 steel wool...and like the one poster, I let the blank sit in the lacqure till all the little bubbles stop...I have been known to gently bounce the rod and bushing off the bottom of the dipping jar to knock the surface bubbles lose...

Nick its a twofold problem by the looks of the twisted fractures.
If the bolts have been tightened to even just nipped up, once they have been dipped the material your dipping into crosses over between the bush and because of weeping between joins when undone cracks the seal/join.

Doing this late afternoon and leaving overnight in these temperatures is not good either as it shrinks more. This happens firstly to the metal components Brass tube included, wood shrinks to but at a lesser rate. The finish material is still chemically changing Green, HOT mode.
This is why spray painters use strong heat lamps and lights to
1 warm the body first prior spraying
2 warm the air in the booth ambient temp.

Might I suggest instead of bolts use as Salty?Mark suggested to me recently a potato (or even a bit of cork) either end then with wire poked through it do the dip. The potato will stop leakage happening back into the tube, is soft enough not to cause stress and damage.

Edited Other suggestion is if you want to continue doing it using the bolts get yourself a Craft knife and before undoing the nuts and bushes run the blade around the JOIN between the bush and pen tube first then between the nut and bush 2nd then undo, this will break the join between the tube finish and bush

Just looking through some old emails and saw that the person that gave me the information about dipping, got the idea from Edblysard.
Thanks Ed.

When I did my pens by the dipping method I had no problems. Although that was back in early April when temperatures were much warmer.

When I did the dipping I didn't wait for the bubbles to stop in fact I doubt whether I dipped them for greater than 30 seconds if that and I only left them until they were touch dry before I dipped them again up to six or seven dips.

I sanded to 1200 just made sure that I ran around them with the utility knife and then snapped the bushes off.

I certainly wouldn't be dipping out in the shed in this cold climate.

That is more like the trouble I had when I was doing them with a CA finish.

Thanks all for your comments

I did run around the ends/bushes with a utility knife and I don't think I had the fittings tightened up too tight. The cloudiness appeared after I removed them and had them sitting on the rack ready for assembly

I think the clip end for the sierra was/is stress related, I did get the fitting slightly crooked when pressing together

I just might have to bring them inside (not sure what SWMBO might say) for the next try. It does get pretty cold in the shed.

The other option might be to built a light/heat tent. Home brewers sometimes do it, ie a cupboard/box around the brew with a low wattage light in it to raise the temperature. Could try it here with a cardboard box over the stand with a 25 watt light left on overnight

Most of the lacquers I have seen reccomend 72 to 80 degrees F as the proper drying temp....tell the wife/goddess that the smell goes away quickly once the stuff starts to dry...or promise her the first pen..(works for me) and your drying box idea may work fine as long as the temp stays constant and withing that range....

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

I've had a go at Ed's lacquer dipping method
unfortunately with little success
I wonder whether
(a) I should have wiped each blank with metho (DNA) or acetone before dipping
(b) It was too cold overnight
(c) I might have gotten some oily residue from my fingers between layers when handling between dips
any ideas?

I'm far from the expert here but before it warmed up here I made a 'hot box' out of a cardboard box sitting on Two 2"x4"' pieces the box ersted on so air could circulate underneath.

In the box I used a 25W or 40W light bulb and I had a thermometer in the top of the box for temps.

Attachment 110498

I found that keeping the temp between 80ºF - 95ºF I could re-dip after 60-90 minutes.

On the oily woods I've dipped I've given them an alcohol bath to remove the resins from the wood and used mylands sanding sealer on them before dipping.

Ron
Thanks
looking at the label looks like you do dinner in there as well
how big was the box?

Looking at another website
Russ Fairfield seems to know what he is on about! Have a look here

There's a suggestion it should not get below 65 degrees (about 18.3 here) when applying lacquer (this is spraying)
nights have been down to 9 ish recently and probably colder in da shed

Anyway didn't get a chance to have a play this weekend so can't talk of a fix yet, but I'm fairly convinced it's temperature related

Hi All, I'm new to the game but have a similar problem with my CA finish and was searching through the forum threads looking for answers. A few people have hit on some of my errors but the main one which comes up every time is lack of pre-cleaning with metho or similar product to remove the natural oil from the wood.

As I see it the oil inhibits correct bonding between wood and finish (CA or whatever) and the milky appearance is a delimination (air gap) between the two. My day job has me testing the bonding of composite materials and the same applies for those, oil equals bad bond. I should have realised it earlier.

The linear appearance is possibly a result of some stress within the assembly but would possibly not be there with a better bond.

I have yet to try this theory for myself as my pen supplier is away BUT as soon as I can get my hands on some more pens I'll give it a look/see.


Cheers
Pos

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

Ron
Thanks
looking at the label looks like you do dinner in there as well
how big was the box?

Yes ... it was a Thai Shrimp Dinner box

The box size is 12" x 14" x 18" ... it just fits over my drying rack and I still use it after dipping to make sure no dust/dirt can deposit itself on the lacquer.

Looking at another website Russ Fairfield seems to know what he is on about! Have a look here

Russ is a member of our turning club and there's not a more helpful person around when it comes to wood.

Ahhh ... can't look as I'm replying to the message. Is that about using an old dishwasher for a drying box for wood?

I have one of those in the backyard (the wife loves it being back there ).

I mainly use it for drying the Red Fir Bark and I pulled the motor and the pump out of and ran a shop light through the bottom and it keeps the inside a toasty 90ºF even with snow all over it.

After a few months in there the bark comes out dry and I can make rings out of it.

Attachment 110552 Attachment 110553

There's a suggestion it should not get below 65 degrees (about 18.3 here) when applying lacquer (this is spraying) nights have been down to 9 ish recently and probably colder in da shed

I believe Ed posted something about that. When I dip I place the box over the timber and turn on the light and it stays warm in there at night and it's nice and dry in the AM..

Anyway didn't get a chance to have a play this weekend so can't talk of a fix yet, but I'm fairly convinced it's temperature related

I think you're on to something here.