Thread: Gone in 60 seconds

I have more of these kits left. I'm not going to use them for custom jobs anymore, that's for sure, and if I just make some stock pens with them, I'm going to lubricate the plastic and probably try and sand it down a bit first before I put it in. I'd rather have to CA a loose fit, than have this happen a 4th time.

Russell,

Thats pretty much what i'd do, make the rest to display blanks, fiddle with or keep for parts, but i wouldn't do customs of them again.

I'd move along to another similar kit or if it is a copy of an original kit, try the original instead. Inform your supplier of course, perhaps you might find a solution there.

Neal.

Hello Russell
I am going to guess and say it is a jr gent or baron orr something similar ? I find what you are talking about is a comon problem and has happened to me. The way I have found that I solve the problem is by smearing a light coat of vasoline on the inside of each end of the tubes and also on ALL parts as I find this makes them a hell of alot easier to put in.
I know we are no suppose to look at it this way but it also makes them easier to get back out if you end up with any problem or in my case mistakes putting them together.

I hope this is of some help

Cheers Ian

Originally Posted by BoomerangInfo

Right, this is the 3rd time this has happened to me with this kit and I'm getting a bit annoyed. I don't have any problems with other kits, and this is a custom order I now have to start from scratch again. What am I doing wrong?

I know what the problem is, too much pressure on the connectors while joining it to the pen, but why? It's causing the thread to bend, compress and separate itself, as can be seen in the photo's. Then, while trying to remove the connectors to replace with new ones (an impossible job as you can see on the other end, due to it being jammed in so tight) I've cracked the blank.

My tubes were clean, and having had the problem in the past, I was extra careful when assembling, although it got very tight at the end, so I figured I might be in trouble. All I can put it down to is a combination of the plastic parts being too large for the brass, and the connector being a very thin part.

I have more of these kits left. I'm not going to use them for custom jobs anymore, that's for sure, and if I just make some stock pens with them, I'm going to lubricate the plastic and probably try and sand it down a bit first before I put it in. I'd rather have to CA a loose fit, than have this happen a 4th time.

This is the first pen I've made for a customer in a long time. Three hours work over two weeks (making and settling time for the blank included) down the drain, and now I have to try and do a rush job to get it done for Christmas delivery.

What would others do in this situation?

Thanks. Russell.

Russell, first I would contact the supplier and have a talk as what to do to solve it, as I find the suppliers have the knowledge to help you. When I bought my very first Jr Gent version 1 it came with a little threaded stud that screwed into the coupler to stop the thread from crumpling. I had a second one made that when pressing the couplers into place you were not pushing against a thin wall of the coupler. It also fits the Baron and Sedona pen as well.

Russell .looks to me that you are pressing together a bit much, the small shoulder of the metal part is shearing the threaded part as you push it in , with any of these type of fittings I press in my drill press just enough to stop the metal part turning so a little bit at a time and test ,else you get exactly the result you have shown . Some of these fittings are simply a plastic thread on a brass sleeve and are easily damaged . I can understand your frustration though . Good luck with the next one though ,gently does it cheers ~ John

Maybe it is me, but a lot of the kits I have now appear to be a bit frail compared to earlier ones. Even at times pieces missing from the kit. Yes I know tell the supplier, but I take the way of not getting kits from them again. That way loss of business hurts more than making up stories that it is allways my fault. ( in some cases maybe it is).

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

John, I know it sounds like that, but I assure you, i'm applying the minimum forcenecessary to get the parts together. The problem is, that minimum is a heck of a lot.

I did another one (also for a customer, but in BOW, so easy to recreate if a problem) and sprayed silicon libricant on the mating parts. It didn't make assembly any easier that I could tell. I also have the plastic sleeve on one end a very light sand, which also didn't seem to make much difference to the pressure I needed to apply.

What I think did make a difference though, and Darren is on the right track, is that I left the end cap and nib assembled onto the collars. This gives support to the threaded part BUT, it's very tricky, especially with the nib end, keeping the parts in alignment while trying to push them together. The chance of it moving sideways and destroying the bits is quite high doing it this way. If there was a small protecting plug like Darren mentioned, that would solve all the problems I reckon. Still, it seems way too much pressure is required. The nib actually broke through my compression block (the plastic housing disk of one of those small changeable sanding disks) before the collar section was fully embedded.

It does seem to me, the 'cheap' kits when I started are now the mid-range kits, and we have a whole new class of 'cheap' kits which are a lot more fragile. I don't know whether this is a factor of the world economy requiring compromises to keep prices on par, or whether pen making has increased in popularity, so the manufacturers are trying to cater to the masses and cash in by upping production and cutting quality. Or maybe none of the above is true, and my skills are just degenerating as I get older

Russell.

Russell ! I doubt you have lost any of your skills hehe, The only suggestion I can make is to accurately measure the interference fit eg inside dia and fitting dia. Ideally should be the same size ,this will give a nice firm fit (size for size) .001" will be tight any more and problems will occur ,with acrylics they have no give and will often crack, especially if the tube size is very close to the drilled size, and you use a hard glue like CA it has no give and will transfer the pressure of expanding the tube directly to the acrylic,often cracking them . I found in the case of the bullet pens I was making if the hole was a neat fit in the tubes on assembly the activater could crush as it could not spread the tube it was being pressed into, inside the brass casing. In those cases I have a 1/4 "reamer with a few thousanths of an inch stoned off at the tip this gives me the right fit for 7 mm tubes and fittings. In other cases I use a round file to ease the I.D. till I can just start the fittings into the tubes. These are not necessary most times ,but as you say standards are not as good as we should expect ,and that is pretty universal in automated production these days . We tend to glue if too loose, curse if too tight
Cheers~ John

Russell, use a rotary tool (dremmel) to grind away some of the inside brass tube, and sand off some from the fitting, lubricate well and good luck, --I know how frustrating this can be, and SHOULD NOT BE, but since you now have those kits, just do what is needful for a successful fit, Amos

Quick question , maybe a solution also.
If it is one of the kits that requires a 33/64 hole for the bottom tube try using a drill that’s
13 .5mm.
We found that the tube is slightly too big for the 33/64 hole, so when pressing the fittings in, the brass had nowhere to expand to, and required so much pressure to force the fitting in they crack.
There has to be a small gap between the outer tube wall and the inner wall of the hole, filled with glue, so the brass tube can deform/expand and grip the fitting.
We are talking about something on the order of 1 or 2 thousandths of an inch, but it makes a difference.
If you can come up with a 13.5mm drill, try that in a scrap, glue in a tube and see if the fittings work easier.
Also, make a spacer that fits over the threads, but still sits against the shoulder of the fitting, and press the fitting in using it to apply the pressure on the fitting shoulder instead of the threads directly.
If you are casting the tube directly in resins and such, then I suggest you try and counter sink or chamfer the leading inner edge of the tube so the fitting starts a little easier.
See John's post above, this is not that uncommon a problem.

Originally Posted by Woodenink

Russell, use a rotary tool (dremmel) to grind away some of the inside brass tube, and sand off some from the fitting, lubricate well and good luck, --I know how frustrating this can be, and SHOULD NOT BE, but since you now have those kits, just do what is needful for a successful fit, Amos

That's exactly what I did Amos, although sanding off the fitting removed the black paint and left the metal expose, which you have to be careful with not to sand the black off the thread at the same time, or it spoils the look. It was still a tight fit, and gave that scary creaking noise just before it hit home. The end result is below. The top section is the original piece that worked, the bottom section is my second attempt. I made two of the blanks originally, but used the best one first. I only replaced the portion that broke and left the cap as it was. They don't exactly match, but I think the end result is OK.

Ed, the problem size is 25/64th. I drill the resin, paint both the tube and the resin hole (which I know will take up that give room you guys are talking about) and then 2-part epoxy the tube in. Gluing the tube seems no problem, plenty loose getting it in, but the epoxy will be brittle when dry.

Not 100% sure I know what you mean by using a spacer. The fittings have no shoulder to press on. it's basically the inner metal tube, with the thread formed onto the outside of this tube. The chrome decorative ring has no structural part of the connector, and cannot be used to help seat it in place.

Keeping the end cap and nib end on when assembling seems to be working, but as I said, it's scary trying to push the nib end on with the nib still attached, and watching that 4cm long construct trying to go straight into the tube without bending everything.

Russell.

Oh, and here's the BOW one I made at the same time yesterday afternoon, same kit.

Russell.

Correct me if i'm wrong but these are baron II's?

Neal.

Originally Posted by thompy

Correct me if i'm wrong but these are baron II's?

Neal.

Yes they are, but I don't want to cast any aspersions on any specific kits. I've had great service from the supplier, and when I first had problems last year, he helped me as much as he could and sent replacement parts FOC, and I haven't contacted this time, as others seem to have not had issues, and I would expect the same answers as last time.

These are 'cheap' kits comparatively speaking. I like the style of these. I consider them highly functional, elegant and less "feminine" than a lot of the other kits, and they are the ones my customers ask for the most, hence why I am trying to persist with them. For the price though, one can't expect miracles, but they still cost money and should work, and in the end if the problem is just me, then I'll have to find something else that has the same clean lines that I can hopefully make for around the same price.

Russell.