Thread: Hobby or career?

To be quite frank I beleive you would would be realy pushing s%$# uphill to consistently produce enough pens to support a family, maybe a single person, you would need to make at least $1000-1500 a week that is a lot of pens. Go out into you shed make a pen from start to finnish as fast as you can. Then go insde and work out how many you need to make to bring in your desired income, then work out how long it will take to make the amount you come up with, then decide if you can keep up the pace day in day out .

Yes, all of you are correct in saying that it's unlikely that pen making alone can produce enough income for a family to live on. That's true of most hobbies unfortunately. I've read interviews from some pretty famous photographers who say they have to have a day job to top up their earning, as their photographic pursuits are not enough to loive on. That's why I said in the original post "assuming you can make as much from pens as from a day job". I do have a registered, but non operational vermiculture business, I have all thegear to run an airbrush tattoo business, and I have successfully made a regular (all be it very small) income from my boomerang sales. So I do have other options for income streams. Question is what is sustainable.

I would have the advantage of the payout amount, which in effect would be equivalent to a part-time income for about 3 years already, and it just needs topping up with some other income to stretch it further.

The big trick might be if I can convince the wife to work She is about to lose her casual job, and is quite happy that she'll be spending more time at home, so I'm thinking that suggestion might provide me with a nice comfy bed on the loune for few nights

Russell.

Well in answer to your question, would I make pen if it could sustain an income to live off?
Then the answer is yes I would.

Hi Russell,

If you decide to go into making full time then the question becomes how do I create a business? Im not much of a turner but as a small business owner i can tell you that I need to make at least 4 times the cost of materials to keep food on the table. Dec/Jan are dead months for me so the overdraft cops it and financing costs explode. I will see some money for myself in April. I am perpetually looking for new customers and keeping abreast of what is happening in my marketplace. Its a 60+ hr per week occupation for me. Ive learnt the real value of money.

May I suggest a business plan and a SWAT analysis. I would pay particular attention to the marketing plan. Suss out your customers and your competitors. I wouldnt count on the corporate market BTW, they are price driven and you will end up competing with overseas producers. There is an old saying "you've got to be a slave to compete with slaves". If you are seriously entertaining making pens (or stuff) for a living, I'd start now and get some real sales experience under your belt. (my apologies If Im telling you what you know or know what to do, in my experience sales is the most important skill you will need).

A final thought, I love being my own boss. Yes I work hard but if I want a day off I take it, If I want to listen to The Daily Planet I hold my calls and listen. I have a quality of life that doesnt come from being at an employers beck and call. There may be business opportunities near where you live. Newsagents do well as do Post Offices. What is coming up for sale in your area?

Originally Posted by Sebastiaan56

Hi Russell,

If you decide to go into making full time then the question becomes how do I create a business? Im not much of a turner but as a small business owner i can tell you that I need to make at least 4 times the cost of materials to keep food on the table. Dec/Jan are dead months for me so the overdraft cops it and financing costs explode. I will see some money for myself in April. I am perpetually looking for new customers and keeping abreast of what is happening in my marketplace. Its a 60+ hr per week occupation for me. Ive learnt the real value of money.

May I suggest a business plan and a SWAT analysis. I would pay particular attention to the marketing plan. Suss out your customers and your competitors. I wouldnt count on the corporate market BTW, they are price driven and you will end up competing with overseas producers. There is an old saying "you've got to be a slave to compete with slaves". If you are seriously entertaining making pens (or stuff) for a living, I'd start now and get some real sales experience under your belt. (my apologies If Im telling you what you know or know what to do, in my experience sales is the most important skill you will need).

A final thought, I love being my own boss. Yes I work hard but if I want a day off I take it, If I want to listen to The Daily Planet I hold my calls and listen. I have a quality of life that doesnt come from being at an employers beck and call. There may be business opportunities near where you live. Newsagents do well as do Post Offices. What is coming up for sale in your area?

That's really, really good advice from someone out there doing it themselves, thanks. I guess you've put it into better perspective in a parrelel decision I have - do I want to be a small busines sowner with all it's ups & down, or I do I prefer the safer route of a salaried employee working for "the man".

My Tattoo business failed (or more correctly petered out from lack of attention) primarily for two reasons - lack of time (my fault for not putting it in) and lack of sales technique. It was an experiment in small business operation for me, as I didn't expect or need the income at the time, which possibly was a bad decision for me, as I had no real motivator. But your point about sales experience I think is very relevant to me. For some reason I feel guilty taking money from people. Does that wave a big red flag that I'm doomed to fail, or just that I don't believe in the product I'm selling and I need to find a better product? Either way, its a hurdle I have to overcome or I'm in big trouble if I go this route.

Your point about competition is good too. I've always tried to aim for Niche markets to avoid competition, but have gone to the extreme I think where there's little competition, but even less custom, which sort of defeats the purpose. I could go to the other extreme and say I'm going to make Polymer Clay jewelery and try to sell. There's a vast jewelery market, and it's flooded with hundreds of makers and cheap imports, so the chances of making a buck there are slim too. Finding the balance between the two extremes is the trick, which everyone is trying to find. Just look at any internet marketting site for that advice.

Thanks again for your input.

Russell.

Originally Posted by Rum Pig

Well in answer to your question, would I make pen if it could sustain an income to live off?
Then the answer is yes I would.

I guess that answers my original question, thanks.

We've sort of sidetracked the topic into "can you make a living from Penmaking?" which has been discussed before, but I always enjoy taking about marketing, so thanks for all the input.

Russell.

Hello Russell,
I am late to this discussion, but strangely I was talking of this very topic last Sunday with a group of pen makers. They all agreed that the pens were a thrill to make and were very attractive when finished. However they also agreed that they were extremely difficult to sell. I asked them what they did with their pens, and they all used them as gifts. Asked why not many sales, their reply was that in order to make anything out of them, they had to be priced above similar imported items, and theirs didn't sell as a result.
I would keep the pen making as a hobby and enjoy it as your R&R and make some money on the side from it. You will need to keep up your income stream for the sake of the family - so a salaried job is probably necessary as well.
Good luck.
SG

Russell,
I run a pen making business as a side line, and can tell you from experience that it will not support a family.
It might support 1 person, if they were frugal, but that’s about it.
We do a pretty good volume in a fairly niche market with a top quality product.
It pays for all the equipment and materials, but, and this is the big rub, if we paid ourselves anything close to a real salary, it would never break even.
And that’s with an experienced tax man/accountant cooking the books for every deduction possible.
My suggestion is, if you are relatively debt free, can get a part time job with out jeopardizing any pension plan you have, and do pens on the side as a supplement income.
Find a product or two you can do relatively inexpensively and with a small time investment, preferably one that has a niche market, like fountain pen collectors or, as in my case, gun collectors and hunters, then work towards that market.
We have a saying in the railroad industry…”Don’t live off your overtime”
You could change that around for turners, and say “Don’t live off your pen profits”.
Good luck with it.

My 2cents, having been in IT, often for govt. depts., for the past 20+ years.

Up until 2 years ago, I could always get a job in about 3 days.

Since Feb 2008, I have been unable to get ANY work. I started out applying for my IT speciality, then broadened applications to anything IT that I had skills for, then added anything local, then did an Aged Care course, and applied at all the new Aged Care facilities popping up locally, and finally started begging complete strangers for a job (just out of interest, it was the last technique that worked, and I start as a delivery driver for a small local business tomorrow).

Anyway, I'd suggest that if you take the package, don't live off it - get another job ASAP, or start trying, because you just might end up needing all the package to last you until you do find another job. This is the first time in my life that I've had such a hassle trying to find a job, any job, and I know a few others who've been looking for years now.

Hope you don't have the same difficulty if you do take the package, but it seems right now is a very tough time to be out of work.

Cheers,
Andrew

Thanks Andrew,

Very sobering thoughts, and ones I could walk into.

Russell.

Originally Posted by BoomerangInfo

My Tattoo business failed (or more correctly petered out from lack of attention) primarily for two reasons - lack of time (my fault for not putting it in) and lack of sales technique. It was an experiment in small business operation for me, as I didn't expect or need the income at the time, which possibly was a bad decision for me, as I had no real motivator. But your point about sales experience I think is very relevant to me. For some reason I feel guilty taking money from people. Does that wave a big red flag that I'm doomed to fail, or just that I don't believe in the product I'm selling and I need to find a better product? Either way, its a hurdle I have to overcome or I'm in big trouble if I go this route.

Motivation is the key factor, always. If you havent got it you are much better off working for the man.

Sales is a funny game, there is no business without a sale and I have no qualms anymore about asking a fair price for what we do. You have a right to make a living for those you love and if you would be willing to pay what you are asking then there is no issue. If you cant do that then you are better off working for the man. I refuse to rip people off and get really annoyed when others dont pay me. I give and expect honesty in return. I dont always get it and end up getting ripped off and that is my learning curve in all of this.

Its my pleasure to be of service.

Originally Posted by BoomerangInfo

That would be the best short term solution. Long term I always have a fallback position of coming back to Brisbane, or even Toowoomba has better job prospects, assuming I'm still employable if I leave.

Russell.

Which is an extremely risky assumption in your line of work, if I understand it correctly. One year is a long time in IT.

Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

Which is an extremely risky assumption in your line of work, if I understand it correctly. One year is a long time in IT.

In technical skills yes, but I've progressed to a management level, and those skills are pretty stable. They're even transferable, but preference is always given to those in the area seeking promotion, before those moving inot a new area, so it's very hard beating a local candidate outside an area you have experience.

Russell.

Russell

For my bit stay with a full paying job, I have done well out of pen making but would never make enough to support a family. I have sold a pen in excess of $1000 and quite a few in the range up to that mark, but there is not enough to call it a business, still a hobby.

I wish you well in your future it is something that only you can decide, I spend nearly all my working married life at sea and this meant spending at least half of the time away from the family so I know where you are coming from.