Thread: On the subject of glue

Originally Posted by artme

Is there any difference in quality?

In perceived quality, yes. People will pay more for a known brand name. Selleys knows this, and charges accordingly.

Most of my CA comes from the $2 stores, where I get 5 tubes for $2.

And rather than pay $100+ for a cup of Araldite at Bunnings, I'd buy 12 times as much botecote marine epoxy for the same $100.

All glues are not the same, albeit the same name, the quality varies considerably.

Superglue for example, those $2 tubes have very little superglue in them, they are filled with the wash from the rinsing out the tanks in which it is made. So it is far more brittle and has a much lower "glueing" capacity. Smaller containers are more expensive too due to the labor involved, so larger containers are always more economical, assuming you can use it before it goes off.

Epoxies also vary. Araldite is clearly stronger than the $4-6 twin tube you get at the $2 shop.

Having said that, the better expensive glues are not always needed, for that Slimline with straight grained blank for example. For a croc or worthless wood blank you have forked out decent $'s for, use the best glue you can, you don't want it to fail especially on a good kit.

Weldbond is useless for gluing in tubes. I n fact I would use Bondcrete instead of Weldbond for any job that Weldbond says it can do.

Getting back to it - gluing in tubes. Some use CA but there is no guarantee it will hold when turning or fill any pits between the timber blank and the tube so you might just get some blow outs on the timber when turning the blanks. Also, CA has a bad habit of drying before you can properly place the tube into the drilled blank. Nevertheless, those who enjoy the highs of CA odours and who like to walk around with half a tube and blank stuck to their fingers can argue the merits of using CA.

The Alternative: Go to Bunnings and buy a tube of Sika Poly glue and use that to glue in the tubes. It swells as it dries and fills in all those nasty divots between the tube and blank. It also remains elastic when dry and can absorb minor shocks so it won't part from the tube and blank when turning and make your eyes rotate quickly as you watch and wonder what has happened. Also, no nasty odours and you don't have to shake hands with someone when you still have a tube and blank stuck to your fingers.

The trick with Sika is after you glue in the tube - wrap Glad Wrap around the blank and put a clamp over the ends of the blank. That way when it dries and expands it won't push the tube out of the blank. Give it 24 hours to dry and then the world of turning is at your hands rather than on your hands.

I've always used 24hr epoxy to glue in pen tubes as I'm not keen on CA glue for a number of reasons including long term durability. Araldite being one of the brands, currently using Techniglue. Just used up the 2 x 0.5kg tins of Araldite bulk pack I purchased too many years ago now to remember. No problem with going off but then again we don't get freezing cycles here in the tropics. I use 2 x 10cc or 2 x 25cc syringes (Bias Marine or Whitworths etc) to decant from the tins into the syringes for accurate mixing. Techniglue is a 2:1 mix ratio, so I only half fill one syringe to prompt memory. Always decant on a hot day as it lowers the viscosity making it easier to "suck up." Far far cheaper than commercial retail syringe packs & very few failures. Any failures are usually on slimlines & from forgetting to key the pen tubes beforehand.

With the glue up & a little practice one can adjust the volume & placement of glue added inside the blank & outside tube to minimize waste & cleanup. I use a cut down paddle-pop stick as an applicator. Does require sufficient clearance between tube & blank for successful glue joint, but using the recommended drill sizes has worked for me so far. Cleanup is easy with cotton buds & Metho is a good solvent plus I wear cheap Ansell latex gloves (Coles) to minimize hand contamination.

Definitely no half inserted tubes in glued up blanks. or embarrassing moments trying to remove attachments to fingers or finding the acetone has evaporated away at the most inopportune time .

Fewer hazards & much lower risk from less hazardous thinners/solvents than CA glue.

Good input there Greg and Moby!!!

I suspected as much about Weldbond with materials other than timber.

i have used CA and Araldite in the past, in fact I turned a couple of pens for a couple of German students we had here just a few days ago,. Used CA on resin blank and had to do the CA folk dance as a result.

I use the Sika glue here and there but eschewed using it on blanks and tubes for the fact that I was worried about the final outcome. Good trick there Greg! I will try that.

Hi all,
I prefer to use Araldite or similar epoxy glues for glueing any blanks with acrylic or resin in them, and I use a poly glue for timber blanks, I used to use Sika poly from bunnos and had no problems with it, ( other then the first few where the foam pushed my tubes out a little)
but I now use a different poly glue that I get from work as it is free , and the glue rep said it is as good if not better then most poly glues,

tried CA a. Couple of times, none of them ended well!!!
cheers
Ben

CA is quite handy for small cuts on fingers, though. Way better than a band-aid.

Originally Posted by artme

i have used CA and Araldite in the past, in fact I turned a couple of pens for a couple of German students we had here just a few days ago,. Used CA on resin blank and had to do the CA folk dance as a result.

I also buy a box of G Force disposable gloves from Aldi at around $6 for 100. Put some baby powder on your hands before putting them on and they wont sweat. They are good for applying CA as they protect your fingers from CA glue and burns. The 5cps CA I am using at the moment dries so quickly and with so much heat that it burns very well.

Tried some Sika on a pen the other day and did as Greg suggested with the clamp and plastic. Everything was fine.

I was just looking at the Snr. Gents I have to make There is only 1mm plus a poofteenth of blank left after turning. I don't think expanding glue is really an option in that case. Think I'll go thick CA.

Trouble with larger diametre pens is the small amount od material left after turning. Might stick to pens that leave more meat.

Artme,

I only use 5 min or 10 min 2 part 1:1 ratio Epoxy glue for all my glue ups and never have any expansion issues or material letting go as can happen with a bad CA glue up.
I can glue up in the morning sand and prep the blank ends an hour or so after and make the pens a couple of hours after. Works for me and has never let me down

Cheers
Tony

As taught to me by Willy Nelson when I used to live in WA:

Cut a 1/4" thick slice (6.6mm for the metric heads) out of a potato, then push one end of each pen tube all the way through the slice as if you were trying to punch out little potato wads. While keeping the wad inside the tube you give the outside a quick wipe over again (you did key and clean them first didn't you?) and push them into the pre-glued blanks spud end first.

By blocking off the inserted end you reduce the chances of glue ending up inside the tube and causing snags down the line when you try to mount them on the mandrel. Works equally well for poly and epoxy glues. Extremely cheap, readily available, environmentally friendly, good power to weight ratio, what's not to like?

For what it's worth my preference is for poly glues especially on burls where it expands to fill voids really well. Never had one burst apart... prior to turning on the lathe anyway