Thread: Owner Building - YES or NO?

Silent just out of interest, how come you backcharged the concretor if he had nothing to do with the set out. Concretors dont go and pour footings with a dumpy or laser level. Its just done by eye and stepped where necessary. The bricky is supposed to level it out from there. I'd be docking the project manager.

Originally Posted by Dan_574

...... unfortunately you will come across tradies like ozwinner, who will not want to work with you and who will rip you off, sorry oz but its people like you that give other tradies a bad name.

I take offense at a dipstick bad mouthing a tradesman merely because he doesn't like working for ownerbuilders due to having expereinced hassles caused by owner builders. :mad: :mad:

Al would be very reasonably entitled to take a legal action against you for your libellous remarks.

Originally Posted by echnidna

I take offense at a dipstick bad mouthing a tradesman merely because he doesn't like working for ownerbuilders due to having expereinced hassles caused by owner builders. :mad: :mad:

Al would be very reasonably entitled to take a legal action against you for your libellous remarks.

I guess Dan is venting just like Al did. I couldn't give a flying feather whether a tradie wanted to charge double or not. They all do it when they're busy or if they can get away with it. I think its called capitalism. Any person who expects tradies to always give a quote (regardless of who you are) or show up on time, is kidding themselves. Especially for cottage work.

For tradies,its so much easier to work for a regular builder or two. They do a few designs, know the amount of materials required and save time gained through repetition. Less thinking (read working out quantities and time for quotes and best methods of work for a job) and more doing = more money.

But if all you tradies were honest, Ill bet you have just as many horror stories about the builder who was never on site or didn't pay or backcharged you for no reason.

As for those libellous statements. Given that we dont know who Al really is, I cant see how. What damage would there be to his reputation? .

If there is any doubt, Im not having a go at you Echidna or Oz.

Originally Posted by namtrak

I think there is an assumption by the tradies here, that you have an IQ bordering on idiot savant.

Sorry if I singled anyone out to make them feel like an "idiot savant".

I just think everyone is, sorry.

Al

Originally Posted by Dan_574

prepare and research unfortunately you will come across tradies like ozwinner, who will not want to work with you and who will rip you off,.

Dude!!
Ive never ripped anyone off ever!! :mad:
I have how ever in my ealier years been ripped badly by OB's.

Originally Posted by Dan_574

sorry oz but its people like you that give other tradies a bad name. .

Thank you. :mad:

Al :mad:

Originally Posted by boban

As for those libellous statements. Given that we dont know who Al really is, I cant see how. What damage would there be to his reputation? .

If there is any doubt, Im not having a go at you Echidna or Oz.

I realise you're not having a shot Boban but the legal connection could be very easily and clearly established if Al feels the need.

Firstly Iam sorry to oz especially for the rip off comment and the othet tradies if I offended I certainly wasnt meaning too. I dont know how I contradicted myself echidna. It was and still is a great achievement and I certainly can make a decision, I'd like to think that Im one of the owner builders that actually know a fair bit about building a house, not an expert but enough not to stuff tradies around, one thing I can ceratainly say when I built my house that it wasnt me that was stuffing people around but some of the tradies I chose and spoke to. I know there a hell of alot of great tradesman and I used a number of them.

Bin J
I did two extensive renovations to two houses whilst I was living in them.
B<!-- / message -->oth included two story, the first one was full brick and the top floor had a concrete structure and concrete flat roof, the second brick veneer two floors and an attic and in both cases I added some 200 m2 to the existing home.

Having dealt with all the trades, having fired scores of bricklayers, plumbers sparkies and chippies for their incompetence, sloppiness and arrogance, I must say that the only satisfaction you can get out of building your own, is if you do it yourself.

I did not get any satisfaction out of the work done by others because in their little twisted mind they saw me as a sucker rather than a customer, even when they had no hassles from me nor impairment to do the work due to lack of materials or anything of the sort, to the contrary, I had to repair their bad work after they left in many occasions since I saw the trouble of fixing it less than the trouble of kicking their backside.

Tradesman that will come to do a one off job are either semi-retired and this are probably the best ones you can get, or... rejects that no builder wants. They are used to be kicked around by the builder and see your job as a holiday camp

I can make a long litany of horror stories of bad trades people doing bad work,
The concreter who cut the roof open to poor the roof slab, yet did not cover it so when the rain came the next day the whole house was flooded.
The plumber who charged $900 to move a hot water system 10 meters and wanted cash because he needed to go rock climbing, the bricklayer who used 8/1 sand/cement in the mud so that the mix did not go off too quick and he had time to go 2 hours to the pub at lunch time. After firing him I had to re-do the lot myself. The electrician who left cut live wires inside the brick wall, the roof plumber who did not bend the top of the sheets under the capping so that the wind was blowing the rain right in, the floor polisher who worked himself in a corner and walked over his own job, the electrician who drilled 25 mill holes in my exposed beams to wire a light thinking I had yet to put the cealing up etc etc etc.

However

1. Is it a big hassle?
I would call it a challenge.

2. Was it / is it satisfying?
Only in so far as the job I did personally, and that was a lot, almost all the woodwork, including making my own windows doors, stairs etc. very satisfying in that sense.

3. Is it major stressful
It depends on how thick your skin is, how tight your budget and how damaging a mistake may be. If losing a couple of thousand dollars will take your sleep away, think again.

4. Were you working a normal job while you were owner building?
I was, yet I took weeks off at the time to do major work myself.

5. Is there things you "cringe" about that you wish you'd got a builder to do?
Dealing with a builder is not much different than dealing with tradespeople. The builder also thinks you are a sucker, since he is used to be kicked around as a subcontractor by a bigger builder who sues him for every mistake, you are dessert for him and he will treat you accordingly.

6. How do tradesmen interact with owner builders (especially women!) ie. are they condescending, are the more than willing to help, do they take you for a ride?
There are good tradies and there are bad ones.
How will you know? You do not.
As women you are losing from the start, since everybody knows that a women knows nothing about building.

7. How assertive do I need to be?
Buy a shot gun.

8. Who are the best people to get free advice from?
Your uncle builder.
Otherwise look for renovation forums like this one:
http://www.byohouse.com.au/forum/
http://forum.homeone.com.au/index.php
http://www.renos.com.au/forum/index.php?&

Originally Posted by silentC

Here's a bit of a log of the problems I've had so far, just by way of illustration:


3. Bricky starts to lay walls and discovers some of the footings are quite badly out of level. More bricks, more mortar, more grumbling.

Why the hell is the brickie grumbling?
More money for him, or arent you paying him??

Al

Originally Posted by Marc

As women you are losing from the start, since everybody knows that a women knows nothing about building.

I didn't know you could say things like this I'll try that one on my wife.

Originally Posted by ozwinner

Why the hell is the brickie grumbling?
More money for him, or arent you paying him??

Al

P

Chill everyone....

I dont give a flying toss if I work for you or not.( prolly not )
Project builders pay less.
OB'S pay more.
I earn (lots) more doing work for Project builders, sausage builders I call em.
They churn the same crap out plan after plan.
But I get used to doing the same plan, less brain work, less hassle, more money.

Ok.
I revise my first post.
By all means go ahead and build your own house, it will be fun, and you will save heaps of money.

Al

At the end of the day it horses for courses.

1. Some people are good Owner Builders with the right motivations who do good, well organised work.

2. And some people are poor Owner Builders whose only motivation is to save money, are poorly organised and give subbies the tom tits.

3. And some Tradies are good tradies who are reliable, work professionally and have pride in their work.

4. And some Tradies shouldn't be allowed out of their house in the morning, make up things as they go along and rip people off with no conscience.

Which one are you? I reckon I come in under number 1. but I also reckon there is fair portion under number 2. as well!!

Cheers

Originally Posted by boban

As for those libellous statements. Given that we dont know who Al really is, I cant see how. What damage would there be to his reputation? .

Must disagree with you there Boban. I think most Victorian members know who Al is.

Of course there are good tradesmen and bad ones, same as there are good builders and bad ones as well as OB who unfortunately are in a class of their own. There are horror stories available for all of them as well as good ones.

The tradies here are expressing their views, not to have an argument but to help, so why the nastiness. :confused:

As I said, if you have to ask these questions then you should go and learn before becoming an OB.

Peter.