Dodgy Bros. Plumbing & Drainage

**pawnhead** · 26th February 2007, 08:16 PM

Well not an altogether successful day today.

I needed to move my H/W service outside so that I could carry on replacing my flooring / relocate laundry, etc. In connecting up the cold, I needed to get a 5/8” > 1/2” reducer and unfortunately they don’t make them in compression fittings, so I decided to try Mapp Gas, but I now regret the decision. I thought that it went OK when I turned the pressure on, but I realized later that there must be a microscopic pinhole in the joint. You can’t see it, but there’s a very slow drip coming from the connection.
I also needed to solder a Tee connection, and it was a disaster. The Mapp Gas simply couldn’t generate enough heat in the fitting. It would melt the solder alright, but it just wouldn’t draw, so it was off to the plumbers supply for a compression Tee.

Anyway, I’ve still got the problem of the slow drip, so it looks like I’m in the market for an oxy now. I should be able to find a reasonably priced small second hand one if I hunt around. Of course I could just get one of my plumber mates to come around and sort it out for me, but I’ve got a new bathroom to fit out, an ensuite to set up, a laundry to relocate, and some fiddling around in the kitchen to do as well, so I might as well just buy a kit, and sell it again when I’m finished.

Here's some pics anyway, just ignore the unsparged sewer and stormwater, and the unclipped pipework, and the H/W service just sitting on a couple of courses of dry bricks

I'll get a round to it one day.

I've got an old instantaneous gas heater that I'll be installing as soon as I can get the gas connected, so the electric one is only temporary anyway. When I do the kitchen, it will have gas appliances to save some $ in energy.

Meanwhile, as I sit here typing this, the rain is falling through my ceiling and into a bucket. I think I need an umbrella.

Cheers

**AndrewPatrol** · 26th February 2007, 08:28 PM

John (?)
hope i got that right?
Saw a plumbers dirty trick no 36a, once where a smaller copper pipe is inserted into the end of a larger pipe then the slack of the larger is pinched closed aroung the small one to make a push fit and this is then soldered up. Not sure if you need an oxy and I hope youunderstand what I mean. Hope it helps you as one who helps others so much.
Andrew

**pawnhead** · 26th February 2007, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewPatrol

John (?)
hope i got that right?

Yep

Originally Posted by AndrewPatrol

Saw a plumbers dirty trick no 36a, once where a smaller copper pipe is inserted into the end of a larger pipe then the slack of the larger is pinched closed aroung the small one to make a push fit and this is then soldered up. Not sure if you need an oxy and I hope youunderstand what I mean. Hope it helps you as one who helps others so much.
Andrew

That's not a bad idea. The pros do that all the time.
It would have saved me a $2 fitting, but it wouldn't have saved me the hassle of soldering it up. The money I spent on the Mapp Gas torch could have been spent on a second hand oxy that would actually do the job.
I could have used soft solder I suppose, but I think I'll just hunt around for an oxy.

Cheers

**scanfor** · 26th February 2007, 10:55 PM

John, I've just finished a similar job myself. I found the MAPP gas torch to be adequate for the job "IF" (that's a big IF) there's no water in the pipe. I silver soldered (5%) the brass/bronze treaded tap fitting onto the 1/2" copper with ease. I tried using the MAPP gas bottle on my propane torch, and it was useless, so I coughed-up for the $120 Bernzomatic jobby and the difference was startling. Granted the OXY is likely much better in the long run, but factor in the gas bottle rental etc. and it costs a lot more than the MAPP.

Regards

Scott

**journeyman Mick** · 26th February 2007, 10:59 PM

John,
you're welcome to use my oxy set, won't be needing it for a few months at least. The drive to pick it up and then return it might take a little while though.

Mick

**pawnhead** · 26th February 2007, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by scanfor

John, I've just finished a similar job myself. I found the MAPP gas torch to be adequate for the job "IF" (that's a big IF) there's no water in the pipe. I silver soldered (5%) the brass/bronze treaded tap fitting onto the 1/2" copper with ease. I tried using the MAPP gas bottle on my propane torch, and it was useless, so I coughed-up for the $120 Bernzomatic jobby and the difference was startling. Granted the OXY is likely much better in the long run, but factor in the gas bottle rental etc. and it costs a lot more than the MAPP.

Regards

Scott

Yeh I coughed up the same. I could have got an oxy set off ebay for that. There was definitely no water in the pipe, and I held it there for ages, right at the tip of the blue flame. Hmmm.
I believe that you can rent the bottles on a monthly basis. I'll have a bit to do, so if I can set it all up to finish within a month, then I can sell the set again and I'll still get away with it cheaper than paying a plumber.
I wonder how much they are to rent though.

Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

The drive to pick it up and then return it might take a little while though.

Mick

I'd say so.

Hang on a sec.

Just point it in the right direction, open the valve and light it up.

I'll give you my coordinates, and you can use this formula.

Cheers

**Master Splinter** · 27th February 2007, 12:39 AM

It's not the temperature that the MAPP gas gets up to (its plenty hot enough), it's how fast the conductive copper pulls the heat away.

I've had no problems soldering copper water pipe in domestic sizes (or even silver brazing it with those rods with the yellow tip) with your standard BBQ gas bottle and a Primus torch...with a big burner on it. The burner is a bit smaller than the diameter of a 10c coin.

It happily gets copper pipe up to cherry red in minimal time (good for desoldering too).

Even with oxy you can have a hard time if the pipe has water in it - especially when some water flashes into steam and spits boiling water at you!

Use a bit of bread stuffed up the pipe to stop water continually trickling out and chilling the pipe down - the bread will flush out as soon as you put the mains back on.

Often the problem is too much heat...which leads to pinholes and lots of reworking.

Clean the copper well (sandpaper, steel wool..old fittings I'm reusing get chucked into hydrochloric acid to clean), apply flux (I like the stuff that looks sorta like bootpolish), slide the fittings together, heat gently and evenly (you are soldering, not welding...and heat the area you want the solder to flow towards) and when the metal at the exposed end of the join is hot enough to melt solder, remove the torch and add solder. If the copper is too hot, the solder just flows straight out of the joint and onto your boot!

**silentC** · 27th February 2007, 09:06 AM

I looked into getting an oxy. It's the cost of hiring the cylinders that put me off. I think it was up around $100 a year for the rental, then you have to fill them with gas.

The old man tried the MAPP but wasn't overly impressed. Fortunately we know enough people who have oxys so we borrowed one for the bulk of the job.

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