Thread: Electrical work, US versus Oz

Originally Posted by tims

The goverment's also gone one step further in that all houses need to be built by qualified builders so it's goodbye to the owner builder from late 2008.

It's not long to go here either....

As was said in a humorous vein above the primary technical difference is the voltage - 240-250 volts vs 110 volts. It is a little more complex than just that difference, but getting zapped at 110 is way less damaging and less injurious than electrocution by higher voltages such as 240-250.

I lived and worked in the US for some time. The regulatory environment in the US states varies widely, but generally when compared to Australia is compliance based rather than using licensing of the installers. So anyone can do the work - but only licensed people can certify the work as compliant with statutory rules and regulations. This is so for residential building work as well as for electrical & plumbing work.

In the case of electrical installations it is usually OK to run cables and even connect GPOs and fittings - but they are left exposed and unconnected to any power source until inspection by an authorised certifier (who are often electricians who will do the work too). In some states that final connection must be done by the certifier or another authorised person.

That approach makes a slot of sense. Here we have the history of guilds who convinced governments to regulate to protect employment and business rather than to be most efficient and effective and bureaucracies that were established then maintained to oversee all the rules & regulations.

Like all legislation it comes in too easily and is damn hard to remove - as Sir Humphrey Appleby says: public services have engines of a Rolls Royce and brakes of a billy cart. Even the changes made to try to get rid of the bureaucratic overload have have made things worse. The building trades especially are restricted and the closed shop of the trades even more constrained while owner builders are a dying breed as it is made all too hard to comply.

A compliance-based system would be a better way to go - but how do individuals compete against organised lobby groups to get fairness in legislation?

In the case of electrical installations it is usually OK to run cables and even connect GPOs and fittings - but they are left exposed and unconnected to any power source until inspection by an authorised certifier

In the case of NSW, you can do that, but only if you are under the direct supervision of a qualified person and that person must be on site at all times that you are doing the work.

I think it's all too hard for governments to implement anything more flexible. The way things stand, the licensed person is responsible for the work they do. If there is a problem, they have to fix it. They are self-certifying, so no other party can be held accountable. If you introduce a system that lets an unlicensed person do the work and have it certified by someone else, then you introduce another party into the equation. This way, all the onus is on the licensed person. I think this is the way things are heading in general.

Can anyone in Queensland verify this please? About 6 years ago I was talking to a "Handyman" ie he worked as a professional handyman doing minor building type jobs and maintenance. He told me he had a special permit that allowed him to install a new replacement hot water service ie both the electrical and plumbing side of things provided he was connecting to existing supply and not installing new pipework or connecting to the fuse board. He did say that although it was intended he only replace in existing location he intimated he could put it elsewhere so long as he connected back to the original supply point at the old location. I haven't been able to find out how you can do such a course and if it is in fact valid.

Originally Posted by Wombat2

Can anyone in Queensland verify this please? About 6 years ago I was talking to a "Handyman" ie he worked as a professional handyman doing minor building type jobs and maintenance. He told me he had a special permit that allowed him to install a new replacement hot water service ie both the electrical and plumbing side of things provided he was connecting to existing supply and not installing new pipework or connecting to the fuse board. He did say that although it was intended he only replace in existing location he intimated he could put it elsewhere so long as he connected back to the original supply point at the old location. I haven't been able to find out how you can do such a course and if it is in fact valid.

Go here:

http://www.deir.qld.gov.au/electrica...x.htm#restrict

According to the website - there is a national restricted licensing system, see the link at the bottom of the page.

Thanks Sideshow

Originally Posted by Sideshow

Go here:

http://www.deir.qld.gov.au/electrica...x.htm#restrict

According to the website - there is a national restricted licensing system, see the link at the bottom of the page.

There is a Restricted Electrical License but it is hard as hell to get. I was talking to a TAFE teacher that ran the course and he said that there was a lot of people that did the course but couldn't get the license. Even instances like sparkies offsiders not being able to get it.

hi all, having read all the posts so far..
I did the restricted electrical licence course in Melbourne. I didn't go on to get the licence cause its such a pain in the ???? to keep hold of. I work as a transport refrigeration tech. The licence would of been restricted to this occupation only. Which is fair enough. They wanted you to buy the compliance certificates and fill out and log at least one out a month.
These were $5 a pop, and my boss didn't want to go there. Furthermore the course points out that you don't need a licence to plug in and work on things not part of the hard wiring. So as stanby refrigeration on a truck plugs in to 3 phase. I'm allowed to work on it. Similar with any appliance that plugs in.
-next thing, in the UK you can do you own electrical work and plumbing etc.. apparently its soon to be changed to like here. They have fuses in there appliance plugs from 3 to 13 amps. All sockets there are 13 amp outlets. A nice 3120watts

- I was looking at the web for a travel plug adapter for morocco. There was a nerdy web site that showed every plug and socket of the world. Anyway they said the yanks have 220V two phase, to operate things like fridges, washers etc.. any experience of this? only four countries had the wisdom to have 240v 60hz. All the Germans fault for 50hz. Check out this site for all you need to know

http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm

Paul

Paul, Yes they do have 2phase 220V in the US. Two 110V actives, 180 degrees phase difference, with a common neutral. Used for "High Power" loads like stoves, heatershot water etc. Seems to be derived from the pole transformers using a centre tapped 220V winding, with the centre tap being the common neutral. Because it has 180 degrees phase difference between actives, its possible to bridge loads between actives like bridging audio amps into high powered speakers, giving up to 4 times the load power for a given voltage and current capacity.

Originally Posted by malb

Paul, Yes they do have 2phase 220V in the US. Two 110V actives, 180 degrees phase difference, with a common neutral. Used for "High Power" loads like stoves, heatershot water etc. Seems to be derived from the pole transformers using a centre tapped 220V winding, with the centre tap being the common neutral. Because it has 180 degrees phase difference between actives, its possible to bridge loads between actives like bridging audio amps into high powered speakers, giving up to 4 times the load power for a given voltage and current capacity.

I'm sorry but the USA does not have a 2 phase 220v supply, which is derived from a transformer. The only way that a true 2 phase supply can be produced is by rotating machinery or electronics. In this case, each phase will be 90 degrees out-of-phase with respect to each other.

The US manufactures its' electricity, like Australia does, in 3 phases, each 120 electrical degrees apart. Each phase-to-phase voltage is 208v. Each phase-to-neutral voltage is 120v. The centre tap (split phase) transformer you speak of, only delivers 110v (120v) single phase with respect to neutral since both supply windings are 180 degrees apart. Both of these '180 degrees out-of-phase' transformer legs will produce a net 0v if vectorially (phasor) summated, therefore they cannot be used to supply a "2 phase" load.

So how do they get the 220V that they talk of?

Mick

The following only applies to the USA.

Firstly, are we talking single or multi phases?


Transformer supply - 3 wire (AKA Split Phase supply).
1] 240v centre tap with dissimilar ends connected - phase to phase = 240v
phase to neutral = 120v

2] 240v centre tap with similar ends connected - phase to phase = 0v
phase to neutral = 120v


Transformer supply - 2 wire (single phase).
1] phase to phase = n/a.
phase to neutral = 120v or 277v.

Transformer supply - 3 phase 3 wire (Corner Grounded Delta, Open Delta & Ungrounded Delta).
1] phase to phase - 240v, 480v & 600v.
phase to neutral - n/a.

Transformer supply - 3 phase 3 wire (Ungrounded Star).
1] phase to phase - 480v & 600v.
phase to neutral - n/a.

Transformer supply - 3 phase 4 wire (Grounded Star).
1] phase to phase - 208v, 480v & 600v.
phase to neutral - 120v, 277v & 347v.

Transformer supply - 3 phase 4 wire (Centre Tap Grounded Delta & Centre Tap Grounded Open Delta).
1] phase to phase - 240v.
phase to neutral - 120v (A & C phases), 208v (B phase to neutral - High Leg).



General purpose Australian electrical supplies use Delta (Primary)/Star (Secondary) transformers (3 phase) & subsequently have a simpler voltage/phase arrangement compared to that of the USA. Australia does not generally use 2 phase loads, which must not be confused with "split phase" loads or "split phase" transformers.

There is a simple reason why you can go to bunnings and buy powerpoints.
Its called restriction of trade.
This is illegal in Australia.
The powerpoint by itself is harmless and so is on the shelf.
Its the wannabe sparky thats dangerous!
If powerpoints were to be taken off the shelf everything else would have to be too!
Eg knives petrol long pieces of wood etc.

True, there's no law against buying power points. The legislation covers the installation of them, not the purchase.

It's no different for plumbing fittings - you don't need a license to buy the stuff. You can buy gas fittings, sewer fittings. You can buy a hot water system - even get it delivered to your house. What you can't do is connect it yourself.