Thread: Electrical work, US versus Oz

if all the light fittings and powerpoints and what not that were sold in australia were all installed by electricians

I bet not even half of the ones sold places like Bunnies are. The NSW government would be pretty naive to believe that no-one ever does their own wiring. As has been said, if they were concerned about it, they'd crack down on retailers.

It is nuts to think that you need a plumber to change a tap washer. I'm not 100% sure on that - I've never found anything like the Electricity Act that covers plumbing. You're not allowed to contract without a license, but I can't find anything that says you can't do plumbing work on your own home. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I've yet to see it.

Yes there is already a shortage of sparkys and plumbers. If everyone did it by the book, well I just don't think it would happen because you'd never get a trade to come around to all the little jobs.

Originally Posted by silentC

It is nuts to think that you need a plumber to change a tap washer.

Actually I believe you no longer do. I understand there was an amendment to the legislation which allowed home-owners to conduct "minor" maintenance on their own properties or tenants to conduct the same extent of maintenance following permission from the landlord. Minor maintenance would include such things as replacing tap washers, fitting new shower heads and water saving devices. However I could, as usual, be talking out my clacker.

As I said previously

Originally Posted by nev25

Yeah its a bone of contention with the CHIEF ELECTRICAL INSPECTORS OFFICE here in Vic for a while now
They have been trying to stop Hardware store stocking electrical goods and it will come one day.

The compromise was the sign saying all electrical work must be done by a qualified person

Incidental a bunnings store worker in Queensland got sued last year for giving someone advice on wiring in a power point that they bought from Bunnings.
The customer when home and electrocuted himself and then sued bunnings for giving unqualified advice.

I also don't believe thee is a shortage of tradesmen.

I'm an electrical contractor (admittedly in the country) but my phone doesn't ring everyday and I don't have work everyday.

What there is a shortage of is honest and genuine people that pay there bills and pay them on time.

I currently have 3 customers that Ive got legal proceedings against
The first one is for only $445 they just simply didn't pay and wouldn't answer the phone when I rang to ask for payment.

Why would a trademan take on small Domestic work when they have to spend more time and money chasing payment when they could be working for a builder or big company that pay within a few days of completion.

I also don't believe thee is a shortage of tradesmen.

Why would a trademan take on small Domestic work ...

Perhaps this is why people think there is a shortage. Maybe what we have is a shortage of tradesmen prepared to take on the small jobs.

When I needed a sparky in Sydney for a kitchen rewire, it took me three goes to get someone to even come to look at the job that's after trying the two guys recommended by the kitchen place. The guy who did eventually come couldn't get out quick enough, did a crap job, and wouldn't come back to finish it.

Fortunately, I know a retired sparky down here, so I get him to do my work.

Originally Posted by silentC

When I needed a sparky in Sydney for a kitchen rewire, it took me three goes to get someone to even come to look at the job that's after trying the two guys recommended by the kitchen place. The guy who did eventually come couldn't get out quick enough, did a crap job, and wouldn't come back to finish it.

I'm 35 and haven't done a rewire in 10 years and don't plan on doing any in the future either.
The reason is this.Its dirty its messy and crap and no one wants to do it.
How can you compare crawling under someones floor or in there ?????? old roof full of itchy fibreglass or dirty fluffy ???? to working on a new home or on a large site with amenities. Half the people you do a rewire for wouldnt even offer you a glass of water after you have swallowed half their ceiling dust and then you drive home coughing and blowing black ???? out your nose.
The simple answer is you cant and most electricians don't bother with rewires as theres plenty of money to be made elsewhere.

Yeah and they wonder why people get the shytes with them. I reckon they should make it a condition of the license that you have to do a certain number of rewires a year. It's pretty ridiculous that we have these laws preventing people from doing their own wiring, but the attitude of most sparkies is that it's all too hard and they'd rather work on a new site. They should have a board where you can report sparkies and other trades who take your call and say "yeah mate, I can come and have a look next week" and never turn up.

To me it proves that there's a shortage of trades. If you had to fight for the jobs, you wouldn't be so fussy about the ones you take. It's much easier to just sit back and charge what you like for the cream.

Originally Posted by silentC

Yeah and they wonder why people get the shytes with them. I reckon they should make it a condition of the license that you have to do a certain number of rewires a year. It's pretty ridiculous that we have these laws preventing people from doing their own wiring, but the attitude of most sparkies is that it's all too hard and they'd rather work on a new site. They should have a board where you can report sparkies and other trades who take your call and say "yeah mate, I can come and have a look next week" and never turn up.

To me it proves that there's a shortage of trades. If you had to fight for the jobs, you wouldn't be so fussy about the ones you take. It's much easier to just sit back and charge what you like for the cream.

1 To make every sparky do a couple of rewires every year is funny.Its like telling the floor manager he has to go back onto the production line for a week because he knows how to do the task.
2 Its a tough gig for us soft sparkies to do rewires but there are sparkies out there that specialise in this field and do very well from it I would assume.I would think that these are the ones to call not the ones that say new homes,extensions etc.. because up front they dont want do your rewire and they will most probably let you down and rip you off in the hope you wont call again! ( good business ethic eh?)
3 I agree a man that cant hold his word should be publicly identified and fed to the media.
4 There is no doubt there is a shortage of trades.Blame every single person that voted for Jeff Kennet and John Howard and any other liberal rat.
5 To think for a second we can charge whatever we like is a joke.Every industry has its competitors and their prices reflect the quality of service provided except of of course Shonky Joes fligh by night services!

I would think that these are the ones to call not the ones that say new homes,extensions etc..

So how do we tell them apart? Are there sparkys who advertise "we specialise in rewires"? My experience is NONE of them like doing it. As you say, who'd want to crawl around in someone's roof or under their floor, when you can swan in with a cordless drill and a spool of cable and run it through uncovered stud walls?

So this creates a problem, because the NSW government says "no, you cannot touch the wiring on your own home, you must enlist a licensed electrician to do it". But none of the sparkys want those jobs, because it's all to hard and they like the cushy new jobs. So they force us to hire someone, but they don't force anyone to accept the job. Catch 22. Upshot: people do their own, or they don't bother and you end up with old and decrepit wiring, done to prehistoric standards, with extension cords and powerboards everywhere.

What's the average hourly rate for a sparky? I know plumbers get the most, but sparkys have to be up there. Do you think it's value for money, or is it just because there is a shortage - supply and demand? Yes I will rewire your house but it will cost you $80 an hour and good luck finding anyone else willing to do it.

Not blaming sparkys, they're just working within the system. I blame the government.

Their are sparkies that specialise in rewires and advertise as such.I know they do in Melbourne.I do rewires of commercial/industrial buildings from time to time and they do get every bit as messy as domestic its just easier to do when you can walk away after 2 hours and go and use good soap to wash your hands,tables and chairs to eat at,air conditioned lunch sheds no one cares if the permanent power is of for a week or so as temps are set up and a pay slip every week for your efforts without making phone calls , chasing money booking appointments rebooking running late forgetting something and having to go to wholesaler and stuff around..It takes a lot of skill and effort to be a cool calm and collected 1 or 2 man rewire band that can drive home every night without someone screaming at you I have no ????ing power !!!!!!!!!!!!.
Most sparkies just arent up for it.
If the money is fantastic doing rewires Id be happy to do them for a while but Id need a helper.
This creates a dilema. You need to hire someone to get covered in ???? and pay them a wage and try and protect them somehow from not getting hurt by all that dust and fibreglass and aspestos in old homes.I personally wouldnt want to send anyone in to a place in those conditions and thus I don't.I dont want someone in 15 or 25 years time placing a claim against me because I knew the dangers.
I have a better idea.
If a home is over 30 years old and the wiring is shot make it a mandatory remove all plaster and resheet!
At the same time get rid off all that ???? insulation in the ceiling as well.
Just because its possible for a sparky to rewire an old ???? home doesent mean he should have to.
Its like insisting a car that was run over by a truck should be repaired and fixed because a panel beater knows he can do it. Or a crane repair man should walk the beams to the overhead crane to restart it because he skilled at it and he probably wont fall off.
Realistically a lot of old homes are just health hazards and shouldnt be worked in unless your willing to don the space suit and breathing apparratus.
The government needs to draw a line in the sand and say if the ceiling space is a hell hole no man should work in it!But they dont because there are fools out their willing to do it.

I've got a mate in Sydney who has a ceiling vacuum business. One of his main lines these days is removing that loose insulation stuff that was popular about 10 years ago. I had that stuff in my ceiling in one house in Sydney and my sparky said if I wasn't a mate he would have walked away from the job.

It's obviously up to the licensed contractor to make sure the work environment is safe. The cost is naturally passed on to the customer.

But what's next, are we going to have plumbers refusing to fix sewer lines because they smell a bit and they don't want to touch other people's poo?

Originally Posted by silentC

I
But what's next, are we going to have plumbers refusing to fix sewer lines because they smell a bit and they don't want to touch other people's poo?

It's already happening. BIL's BIL (plumber) only wants to do new work. As he says "I'll be f........d if I am going to play with other people's s...t if I don't have to. This was said while he was replacing the toilets at my MIL's house and he encountered some black stuff in the sewer.

My old man is a plumber and after 40 odd years, he's not afraid of getting his hands dirty. Back when he did his apprenticeship, people had the "try to fix it first" mentality, so clean jobs were a bit of a luxury and an apprentice plumber could expect to have his hand down an S bend most days of the week.

I guess I'd not want to crawl around under someone's house for a living but then I'd not want to stick my finger up someone's bum to check their prostate either yet plenty of doctors do it. Maybe it's something to do with the expectations that are being set these days by apprenticeship training.

This has turned out to be a great post (US versus AU)

I'm an electrical contractor an am more that willing to do a house rewire (yeah there are some that wont)
Providing there is a guarantee of getting paid for it.
I guess there is the bottom line MONEY.

I previously ran a production business in the entertainment industry.
After spending many years putting up with Publicans and night club owners and the meat-heads that stand at the front door wearing a security badge that don't have any idea not to mention Managers Agents and rock-stars.
I got out due to the industry going A**se up and being owed a lot of money.
Went back to my trade as a sparkie which meant me going back to school and getting my Contractors license
And then advertising that I specialize in small jobs
WHAT A MISTAKE
Ive never been Stuffed around so much in my life.

One example a day 3 weeks ago I had around 5 phone callers all wanting work done
I said It would be around 3 weeks to get around to them hey all said no problems whenever you can spare an afternoon.
2 weeks later I left the whole week open to get around to them.
And guess what when I rang them
Every one of them said we have changed our mine or sorry got someone else.
Gee what was I to do for the rest of the week.

Getting back to the money side of things I sit here and am OWED just over $7000 in which some of these are dated back many months.

I guarantee if every one of these people where short of $1 in there pay packet they would yell and scream but I'm expected to go without?

So why wouldn't a tradesman want to work in with a builder doing new houses that was not going to stuff him around and would pay on time.

So why wouldn't a tradesman want to work in with a builder doing new houses that was not going to stuff him around and would pay on time.

Don't take that for granted, either. There has been a history of builders going belly up or disappearing around here, especially on spec houses.

I understand the point of view for sure. I've done some 'orrible dirty jobs myself in the past. Ever tried steam cleaning commercial kitchen canopies? That puts you off fish and chips for life, let me tell you.

The thing is, there used to be an expectation in a trade like plumbing or electrical that there would be a certain amount of crawling around in the dirt. Nowadays, plumbers and sparkies wont even dig their own trenches. Find the cleanest bloke on the site and if it's not the sparky it'll be the plumber!

Getting paid is one of the joys of owning your own business in general. It's not restricted to sparkies doing cash jobs for one-off clients. My old man is still owed something like $40,000 from the days when he ran a sheetmetal works - closed 20 years ago. Do you think he'll ever see it?