Thread: Installing cooktop - do I need an electrician - and if so why?

While your electricity is distributed a bit differently than ours, the installation of a REPLACEMENT appliance is little more than replacing a power cord on your router, just the appliance wiring uses bigger wires. It's not a big deal.

You've said that there are three wires, Line (hot), Neutral and Earth (quaint term). Assuming that the new appliance requires a circuit that is the same or less capacity (in amperes) as the old just connect it up and be done with it. Here, the Neutral and Ground (a.k.a. Earth) are the same circuit (different wires) as they are tied to the same bus bar in the circuit breaker box. The only function of our ground wire is to protect the user if the Line comes into contact with the case of the device. I suspect that if you removed the cover plate that surrounds the circuit breakers at the service entrance you would see neutral (white?) and earth (green?) connected together.

If the new appliance requires a circuit with a greater ampere capacity than the old, you MUST run a new circuit with new wires and a correctly sized circuit breaker. (Remember that the circuit breaker is intended to protect the wires in the house but not the appliance. I think that this is the reason for the legal disclaimer that requires an electrician.)

Earth (quaint term)

You want to be careful raising the subject of quaint terminology on an Australian forum, buddy

Originally Posted by rrich

the installation of a REPLACEMENT appliance is little more than replacing a power cord on your router, just the appliance wiring uses bigger wires. It's not a big deal.

Actually THAT is the reason you need an electrician in this country. Things that plug in are fair game for people to fix but when you are talking appliances like the oven, they are connected to fixed wiring & this is where you need a sparky.
Also our neutrals are black & earth is green with yellow stripe (for colour blind people)

Reg

If the earth was not plugged into same bus as neutral, then neutral would not work and the electricity connection would not work.

Is this correct?

Anyway in the US anyone can undertake their own electrical installations although must be inspected.

In Oz only qualified sparkies can perform all electrical work.

Regards

Pulpo

Originally Posted by Pulpo

If the earth was not plugged into same bus as neutral, then neutral would not work and the electricity connection would not work.

Is this correct?

No, it still works. The neutral and earth bar are separate and are joined by the M.E.N link, if the link is missing everything still works but it can make the installation more dangerous. The electrician removes the link to perform tests on his work and then puts it back when he's done.

Originally Posted by silentC

You want to be careful raising the subject of quaint terminology on an Australian forum, buddy

LOL here!

I guess that we're two countries separated only by a common language.

I once owned a Datsun (Now Nissan) Fair Lady roadster. While doing some work on the car, the term "Positive Earth" was frequently thrown about in a variety of shop manuals. To my way of thinking, not so positive earth would be a swamp. Finally in frustration I went to the local dealer and service manager. He giggled and took me back to one of the line mechanics. I explained my question to the mechanic. The mechanic starts calling to the other mechanics in the shop, "Anybody know what positive earth is? We have a customer here that needs to know." Eventually a kid, no more than 19 or 20 comes over and explains that it is the positive side of the battery connected to the chassis or ground.

Ever since then, when I see the term Earth in an electrical discussion, I get a chuckle laughing at myself for being that stupid.

I've always wondered how you guys get gas to run downhill into your fuel tanks

I've got a mate from Atlanta. Most of the time we understand each other fine but every now and then he uses a word that makes me stop and think. He's been out here long enough to know that you don't sit on your fanny though

Originally Posted by Redgy

Actually THAT is the reason you need an electrician in this country. Things that plug in are fair game for people to fix but when you are talking appliances like the oven, they are connected to fixed wiring & this is where you need a sparky.

I guess that your 'Sparkies' would be having kittens over my most recent project. I just put six new circuits in a sub panel installed in the shop. Here we use two Line (Black and Red wires) for 240 volts, either Line to Neutral (White wire) for 120 volts and both use the Ground (a.k.a. Earth is the Green wire). The inspector didn't care that I was going to do the work. He just asked if I understood the code. My answer was absolutely and that I wouldn't do it any other way because it was my life.

Originally Posted by silentC

I've always wondered how you guys get gas to run downhill into your fuel tanks

That's easy, we just stand on our heads while we're at the filling station.

Whats black and crispy and hangs from the ceiling, a yank who does his own circuit work.

This may not necesserily be our friend rrich, and house wiring is not rocket science, but it does take an understanding of basic electrical wiring principles and reasonable supply of common sense. A value which a large majority of the world seem to be without.

Lets face it, you cant see it, hear it (under 5kVA) or smell it; but if you touch it, chances are your dead. No second chances and no coming back. Dead Dead Dead. If by some accident you don't fry yourself yet still stuff the wiring, then next thing you know will be a roof fire. Kiss the house goodbye and you might still end up dead!

As for giving advice to our friend Geno to go ahead and install himself, if the person is not comfortable enough to install without asking questions in the first place, then he definitely should NOT attempt to carry out the work!!!

By the way, the neutral is not connected to earth (ground) as most RCD's activate if neutral and earth are cross connected. Neutral is one of the feed lines at your point of connection whereas your earth is connected to a large copper spike in the ground or in older houses to your water pipes (this is being phased out - too many crispy plumbers).

Originally Posted by rrich

I guess that your 'Sparkies' would be having kittens over my most recent project. I just put six new circuits in a sub panel installed in the shop. Here we use two Line (Black and Red wires) for 240 volts, either Line to Neutral (White wire) for 120 volts and both use the Ground (a.k.a. Earth is the Green wire). The inspector didn't care that I was going to do the work. He just asked if I understood the code. My answer was absolutely and that I wouldn't do it any other way because it was my life.

Rich

Over here we don't have 120 volts. We have single phase 240v and three phase 415v.

In our wiring white is used as a switch wire in lighting circuits as well as in control circuits along with other colours in air conditioning wiring.

Originally Posted by Dan

No, it still works. The neutral and earth bar are separate and are joined by the M.E.N link, if the link is missing everything still works but it can make the installation more dangerous. The electrician removes the link to perform tests on his work and then puts it back when he's done.

Thanks for that.

Whats an MEN link?

And is not the neutral and earth wire connected on the same bus?

Its interesting that I cannot buy a book to obtain more information on home electrical wiring.

I have had some electrical work done on my shed, almost all the work was performed by an apprentice [although almost finished his apprenticeship].

His boss I hired.

I have questions about the work and the only way can check is have another sparkie come out and inspect $140.

In many ways I'm just not happy including the finish, small internal circuit breaker box, covers not fitting, or missing screws. If I had some guidance these mistakes would not have been made.

Yes I have check the standards but they are not exactly user friendly.

This a bit more than power points and lights.

Sorry I have got off the topic.

Pulpo

Originally Posted by Pulpo

Thanks for that.

Whats an MEN link?

And is not the neutral and earth wire connected on the same bus?

Its interesting that I cannot buy a book to obtain more information on home electrical wiring.

I have had some electrical work done on my shed, almost all the work was performed by an apprentice [although almost finished his apprenticeship].

His boss I hired.

I have questions about the work and the only way can check is have another sparkie come out and inspect $140.

In many ways I'm just not happy including the finish, small internal circuit breaker box, covers not fitting, or missing screws. If I had some guidance these mistakes would not have been made.

Yes I have check the standards but they are not exactly user friendly.

This a bit more than power points and lights.

Sorry I have got off the topic.

Pulpo

Pulpo

MEN stands for Main Earth Neutral where the main earth is inserted into the Neutal Link on the switch board.

If you really want to check what is what, go to the Standards Association and purchase AS3000 which is the Australian Standard for wiring.

http://www.standards.com.au/catalogu...h&Db=AS&Max=15

Pulpo

One other thing you could do is ask your local electricity supply to come out and inspect it. They don't inspect every job now it is up to the sparky to make sure everything is ok. They only do spot checks provided the sparky has put in a notification.

I would reckon 25% of sparkies woudn't put a notification on a domestic job but the average consumer wouldn't know that.

At one time they inspected every thing and the sparky had to put in a "Ready for Test" notice and supply couldn't be connected until after it was connected and that was usually done by the inspector if every was OK. If it wasn't the sparky had to come back and fix it and have it inspected again.