Thread: Tips for dIY downlights

Just on a side note what is this talk of danger of ceiling insulation catching fire as people mention all the time with DIY downlights/transformers? I thought all insulation was non-flamable? I've seen ceiling insulation put on a BBQ and it just will not catch fire.

transformers give out stacks of heat. it's just something they do.

now, the insulation on these transformers will only be rated to a certain temperature.

when you have ceiling insulation surrounding the transformers they trap the heat. it's just something they do as well.

all the heat builds up and the transformer doesn't like this. the insulation can melt, and cause a short circuit, and if you're really unlucky it'll be a dead short before the coil.

while this should be stopped in it's tracks fairly quickly by circuit breakers, there is still the risk of any arcing or sparks [or just the immense amount of heat] starting a fire by igniting the timber, plaster, rat carcasses, etc.

while it may not burn immeadiately on a bbq, if the heat is there long enough there is a fair chance it will burn.

So it's more the transfromer giving off the heat or the bulb itself? I know my transformers shutoff at a given temperature.

They both give off a heap of heat. There are a few previous threads on sheilding the heat from insulation ... you may want to look at them. Your transformers should be up on the jouists way from the insualtion anyway.

This might be a bit of a dead issue - but I agree, if you have to ask so many questions, you don't know what you are doing.

Shock horror gasp! I am not a sparky but I have on occasion moved power points and changed light fittings. I have had these crappy 240v halogen spots, and it would appear that they had not been installed properly (by previous house owner) and we had to replace a $10 bulb every 3 months until I grew jack of it and replaced it with a twin flouro batten.

Then again I have wired a 3-phase lathe with a 1-phase coolant pump and contactors and the control board looked neater than the original wired up by Klockner-Moeller. Of course if I do this DIY this is not subject to the same "fixed installation" laws which govern the installation of light fittings. I could add a long list of other exploits here but I will not bore you.

However, as an engineer, I am not stupid. I have run a few cables for "professional" electricians to fit off. When I drag a 30mm diameter cable through a crawlspace less than 250mm high and attach it to my floor bearers and dig trenches in compacted clay I expect to save at least three figures on my electrical work.

Amazingly, these electricians generally scratch their heads when I go to Middy's and buy 6mm cable when I "could get away with" 4mm cable etc etc. If I want an upgrade in the future am I robbing them of future work?

I recently had my workshop upgraded to 3-phase, and I saved a great deal of money by buying my own fittings and running my own cable. I had a mate (a very good qualified electrician) fit it off and connect it to the grid.

I am aware that bodies such as the ETU are pushing the Chief Electrical Inspector to stop non-electricians from buying things like cable and light fittings.

Surely concern for public safety is a realm for the government rather than a trade union that seeks to protect the financial interests of its members?

Of course, if the public are not able to buy their own cable etc. then they are at the mercy of their electrician adding horrific markups to items which are not otherwise available.

I believe monopolisation and collusion are topics which are dimly viewed by the ACCC.

However, the current DIY "trend" will leave a few victims, and chain stores like Bunnings-house-of-retards prey upon them. I notice that Bunnings does not call their employees "qualified experts" anymore. What serious qualified electrician works for Bunnings at $500 a week?

I recommend running your own cables and digging your own trenches whenever you can. However, if you are in any doubt about what you are doing, call in a professional, especially if you can't say, "It was there when I moved In"!!

Like a lot of things, there are ways to make it easier on the pocket and still keep it legal.

To wire my garage, I got an electrician friend to quote all of the equipment needed and I got two other materials quotes. His materials quote was the cheapest. I felt good.

He showed me where to lay all of the cable and the requirements for fixing and how many and where they had to be.

I then spent a couple of full days labour running the cables, fixing the light battons and fitting the GPO mounts.

He was then able to complete the circuits and do all of the attaching and testing of circuits in less than half a day. He checked all my work, and testing and checking was over an hour.

There we go job done with only 4 hours labour instead of maybe 16, and all done legally. Common sense is the key Yeah?

At the risk of starting another spiralling electrical thread, the problem with doing the grunt work is getting an agreeable sparky. I had a guy who I found out said to someone "if he's to cheap for me to do the whole lot.. stuff him." I can't understand why they wouldn't like some help especially when we offer to dig holes and crawl around in cramped dirty spaces.

Cheers
Pulse

At the risk of starting another spiralling electrical thread, the problem with doing the grunt work is getting an agreeable sparky. I had a guy who I found out said to someone "if he's to cheap for me to do the whole lot.. stuff him." I can't understand why they wouldn't like some help especially when we offer to dig holes and crawl around in cramped dirty spaces.

My boss and I (both sparkies) are usually very happy when customers do the "hard" work like running cable and digging holes for us. I think if people are interested in doing it that way they should talk to the sparky they intend to use, before starting the project so the sparky can tell you exactly what you can and cant do, and more importantly, how to do it correctly. From there they should have no problem when you call to get them to finish and test the job for you.

There are only problems when people go ahead and do some of it themselves and then the sparky has to come along a deal with all the mess from work done incorrectly.

I did the grunt work for a sparkie not long ago and I now have doubts. We had a quote for $2200 for the job, and we ended up paying $1700 for materials and for the work the sparkie had to do. In retrospect I did a lot of difficult work for the $500 I "saved". By the time the job was done I had to basically learn how to do it myself.

Just a further thought on doing the 'grunt' work.
I am a sparkie, as a holder of an unrestricted wiring license i am required to submit ALL electrical work that i do for inspection by the electrical authorities. (esp. in Vic.) While i am happy to have the customer dig a trench or run some wiring i am responsible for that work. If that work is not 100% to the letter of the wiring regulations it can be failed and i can be fined tens of thousands of dollars. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. electricians can even get jail terms for blantant disregard of regulations.
While i am happy for someone else to do the grunt work, i check it very carefully. some are not willing to take the risk. Talk to your electrician before you start.

Originally Posted by NCArcher

Just a further thought on doing the 'grunt' work.
I am a sparkie, as a holder of an unrestricted wiring license i am required to submit ALL electrical work that i do for inspection by the electrical authorities. (esp. in Vic.) While i am happy to have the customer dig a trench or run some wiring i am responsible for that work. If that work is not 100% to the letter of the wiring regulations it can be failed and i can be fined tens of thousands of dollars. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. electricians can even get jail terms for blantant disregard of regulations.
While i am happy for someone else to do the grunt work, i check it very carefully. some are not willing to take the risk. Talk to your electrician before you start.

Agreed. While i mentioned that we dont mind having someone else do the "grunt" stuff, we generally limit that to running drawwires(not that actual conductor that will be used), digging trenches, putting in timbers for bracing or to fix to etc... Rarely is it anything that relates directly to the electrical part of the work.

It's probably too late now, but I've noticed that nobody has told him to turn the power off at the meter box before he tries anything himself.

From reading his posts he's probably hanging from a ceiling somewhere now, sporting an extreme afro hairdo.

Maybe just a little late!