Thread: Advice for newbie setting up workshop

Wellcome

As a bloody (European) WOG even after ten years in Australia I still think european machines beating everything. I might be wrong but that is my opinion. In my gara...., pardon me, in my workshop everything is european ("Bosch", "Husquarna", "Jonsred" "Kamaz" "Skoda", "Hamlet". "Iskra".....) except a wood lathe (chinese MC 1100 with "Carba-tec" badge) and everything works immpecably good and absolutely everything is 100% reliable. I've tried some other things Chinese, Tailand, Japan, Australian, and even American things and all this lasted no more, or just a bit more than warranty. I have to admit there were no "big things", I mean not realy important machines but I couldn't rely on them so at the end of the day I went back to european machines. What I haven't tried were "JET" and "DELTA" and I cannot give a single word about them, and what I've heard (my "best man" lives in Canada - he is pretty much happy with "Grizly" products).

That was, as I've said, just my opinion and I am more than sure that this will make a big discusion about quality.

Anyway, wishig you a lot of nicely spent hours (excuse my English)

Alex

Hmm... if you are going to be doing cabinet work, bookshelves and the likes, I think you should consider a small tablesaw to start with. Can get a small one for around the $400 mark. Quite essential for ripping long boards with accuracy and you can do your crosscuts if you make up a crosscut sled etc.

Router will definitely come in handy, as will a drill and some cheap drill bits to get you started on a budget.

You will also need a sander of some variety for finishing. Perhaps a 1/3 sheet would be ok to begin with.

Your budget is quite tight given what you need, but I'm sure we can help with suggestions on some of the 'cheapie' tools available that do perform adequately etc.

Welcome aobed

For my 2c:

Given your limited initial budget, I don't think a table saw of any description is an option right now. Find a local supplier of sheet goods (MDF, Melamine, ply & veneered MDF) who can supply cut to exact sizes for you. The Makita SCMS will take care of most of the rest.

The other must haves IMHO are:

Bosch 1/2" router - a nice router that's available (along with service & warranty) just about anywhere.
Bosch random orbital sander - the smaller of the two is just fine. I have both.
A good quality cordless drill/driver - again Bosch for my money.

If you think you might be able to wait a while and stretch to shelling out $1,000-1,200 for a table saw later you'd probably pick up something reasonable, and in that case I'd hang back on the SCMS, maybe just buying a cheap CMS in the mean time. With a table saw you can do just about anything a SCMS will do, but also handle ripping down panels and ripping longer pieces to width.

Don't underestimate what hand tools, rulers, squares, clamps, hand saws, drill bits, countersink bits, screws, glue & other supplies etc are going to cost. You can kick off with a basic kit of course, but even a basic kit is probably $300-400.

Without a table saw I'd probably forget the dovetail jig for the moment - for one thing you need to be able to accurately rip boards to width then dock them to exact lengths to produce a box or a drawer - which requires both a table saw and preferably also a CMS or SCMS. If you want to produce through dovetails you'll also need a thicknesser.

Nothing wrong with going for cheap brands initially (GMC etc) for lower use tools, like a small drill press, disc/belt sander etc.

I guess my basic advice is start slow, build your tool kit over time and buy good quality.

Without going into a lot of detail I would concentrate on some good hand tools because designs do not change a lot over time whereas power tool designs do.

When I say good do not get carried away with brand names either. You could buy a stanley No 4 for around $100 or a lee-Nielson for around $3-400 dollars, the stanley will do much of what you want it to do but maybe with a bit more effort though.


Hand tools:

No 4 bench plane
Tenon saw
Panel saw?
Set of paring chisels
Mallet
Warrington hammer
Ruler
Try or Combination square
Oil stone
Hand drill
Sandpaper block
Glasses
Earmuffs
Files
Coping saw


Power tools:

1/3 sheet or random orbital
71/4 power saw
Drill
1/4 inch Router and bits


There are certainly other hand tools that you can buy but get the basics first and then work from there, slowly you will build up a good tool kit.

With the money left over, if any buy the power tools above.

Daniel

Before all the members of the Triton Forum descend on you I can tell you that thousands of ppl have taken up this hobby by buying a Triton workcentre. I did and I found it an excellent introduction.
Sure, I've since bought a minimax combination machine and it's like comparing a pedal car to a modern motor vehicle - but they will both get you there. And you can see that people here make positively wonderful things with triton workcentres.
And sure, when I look at the cheap table saws available I think I'd rather have one of them than the triton. The big advantages i found in starting out with a Triton are:
1. They have a video (admittedly rather ancient) that not only helps you set it up but amounts to a woodworking course in itself.
2. You can buy a project book that enables a complete novice to make quite good furniture by simply "following the dots" The first thing I made was a full chest of drawers and I'm still proud of it.
3. Because they are so popular they seem to have a reasonable resale value when you want something better.
4. Switching from "table saw mode" to "crosscut mode" isn't much of a hassle when you start out (although it does become one) and it does give you multiple functions.
5. They only become costly when you start to buy all the addons. I did and wouldn't recommend this.

The fact is that after a while you may start to lust after something more sophisticated or wish that for about the same money you had bought a table saw. But in my case that was only because my Triton experience was so satisfactory and such an easy introduction. On the other hand you might feel that a triton fulfils your ever need.

And if you do eventually buy a more sophisticated machine you can take the saw out of the workcentre and sell it. If you do buy the router table that should be good enough for ever - unless you get a spindle moulder but that's another story.

Cheers

I think you are going to get two distinct schools of thought emerging over this question.

Once school says: "start with hand tools, this way you learn how to make the joints the traditional way and you can then move to power tools to speed the process up. You come to understand the joints and see where power tools can help you. Hand tools are also cheaper and if you get good ones they are for life."

The other school says: "why mess about with hand tools when there are so many great power tools, jigs and so on out there that will give you a professional finish with a shorter learning curve?"

You have to decide which one you are in.

DaveInOZ replied to this thread under General Woodwork and said "get a Triton". If you want to get good results quickly, then that is good advice. I've got a Triton workstation and a Triton router table and a Makita SCMS and for most of the stuff I've built, I've hardly ever picked up a hand tool.

For my most recent cabinet project, I used the following:

1. Circular saw in the Triton
2. Router in the table and in plunge mode - straight cutter, beaded round-over bit, coving bit
3. SCMS
4. 1" chisel
5. Cordless drill - straight bits and counter sink bit
6. Orbital Sander
7. Couple of handmade jigs.

With that lot I built a cabinet from solid timber with shelf pin holes for adjustable shelving and 5 piece mortice and tenon doors. I've got heaps of other tools but they're all I used. With the Triton, you don't really need the SCMS.

Having said that, I'm starting to get interested in the hand tools now and I'm building up my collection and learning how to use them.

Originally posted by silentC
I think you are going to get two distinct schools of thought emerging over this question.

Ahh but there are more than two distinct schools of thought .....

I would agree with the two mentioned thus far ... hand vs power .... but then you have the "will do for now school" and the "elitism school”.

The “will do for now school” (WDFNS) which I am a member would rather have a large collection of the cheaper power tools, such as the GMC range so that there is the correct tool for each job, and gradually upgrade from there as skills progress, machinery dies or they have found what stream of woodworking interests them most. It has been said before that for the price and with a 2 year warranty GMC offer very good value for money. With a budget of $1200 it would be a well-equipped workshop if a majority of the products were from the GMC range. There would be a lathe, mitre saw, biscuit joiner, sander, router, drill, possibly the Triton as suggested, assorted hand tools ….. you get the picture, a good mix of tools to try out and produce some very good results.

The “elitism school” (ES) would rather put a majority of the $1200 into a top of the range tool …. nothing below the FESTOOL 150mm Rotex Sander @ $695.45 +10% GST will do to sand wood.
The ES have so much pride in themselves and their skill level that they wouldn’t ever recommend, even where justified for a newbie, a cheaper range of tool. The ES would never admit to touching or let alone buying a cheaper tool as their elitism would be servery dinted. A true ES would simply say that the $1200 should go into shares until it has generated enough of a dividend to purchase the top of the line Jet table saw. The ES cannot see over their own ego to remember a time when they were starting out and had nothing and it was more about how well you could use your machinery rather than how much your machinery cost. It is very handy living near a newbie ES however, after almost finishing your master piece you can always head over and borrow the Rotex sander because you know that it will still be sitting in the box unused as the ES is still saving for the Jet tablesaw that will enable then to cut the piece of wood before sanding.

Although this board offers a great deal of advice with the many knowledgeable members it’s a shame that some members cannot answer the question being asked honestly …. they just seem to put on the ….. hey I have lots of money so only the best will do for me hat and I want everybody to know it. My advice is …. swallow your pride … head down to Bunnies and pick up as many entry/mid level tools that you can, you will most likely be able to assemble a good range of tools that will ensure that you are using the right tool for the job, eg a plane to remove excess waste and not the Rotex sander. Try them out … see what you like …. see what you use …. gradually upgrade as the need arrises and remember ….. when people are admiring your work they really couldn’t give a stuff is you used the Makita SCMS or a hand saw as long as it looks good.

Sorry to rant and rave on but I had to vent this … with Doorstop away who else will stir up the pot?

Stinky is now going off to have a lie down

Actually, you'll get your ES's and your WDFNS's in both the Hand tool and the Power tool argument, so on that basis, there are still two schools but each has it's own spectrum with ES at one end and WDFNS at the other.

GMC vs. Festo - Stanley vs. Lie Neilsen.

Plus every combination in between. Maybe someone could do a thesis on it... nah...

.... rather do a poll

I fully agree with the excellent advice given by Mr. Minimax, Silent C and Sir Stinkalot and all I would say is that if you go for a Triton setup look around for a good and cheap second hand setup. They are often advertised on this BB due to upgrades.

Peter

Hi everyone!

Thanks for the information - I've just returned home from work and there is quite a deal here for me to go on. I appreciate the insight everyone has provided.

I think I've learnt more from the information posted here then what I have learnt wondering about hardware stores - the practical advice is priceless.

At this point, I'll spend one more weekend researching and then hopefully make a few purchases (woohoo!) next weekend and get started.

I think the triton workbench option seems to be the best one for me to go for + a set of basic tools to get me started. However I'll have this weekend to investigate and think about it. Once again, thanks for the info

I agree with Stinkalot and would add that most of my first hand tools and powertools, were second hand from the "Trash and Tresure" or the Femington market.

Congradulations Marc on becoming a senior member.

Now down to the business, did you really read what stinky wrote.

When I saw that it reminded me of the waffle that an old lecturer at university pumped out every day.

Mind you in time he was converted (not that way now) and woodworking became a hobby, he apparently is living in Geelong now.

Stinky your disguise has been revealed at last.


Daniel

Stinky's on a crusade!!

When buying say a plane you can go for the $400 Lie-Nelson, the $100 Stanley, or the $25 Supercraft. The Lie-Nelson would be nice one day if you can use it well enough to justify it and can afford it. Using the Supercraft is a frustrating, annoying experience that would put anyone off. With a little work the Stanley will tune up nicely and work very well for many years.

Buying the Supercraft would be a waste, and likely to put any new woodworker off. Anyone trying to get started using it is either going to give up or shelve it and buy something better. No new woodworker is going to be able to get the value out of a Lie-Nelson either. The smart choice, to me anyway, is to go for the Stanley first up.

Same applies across the board IMHO. Cheap tools are cheap for a reason. They're often frustratng to try to use, especially if you don't know what you're doing in tuning them up, and they don't last. If poor quality tools mean you're not able to cut a straight line, cut square and finish properly, how long are you going to last in the hobby?

Nothing wrong with buying second hand, or buying GMC for that matter, if that's what the budget allows, but buying too cheap is just as silly as a newbie with a Rotex