Thread: One for the brains trust!

I'm with . You can muck around with the proportions quite a bit within those measurements. They could also be that design because the last guy turned them that way and that's what they know so that's what they like. I'd do a few scetches and a sample maybe, of an alternative. I'f they are adiment just grit your teeth and think of the money.

BTW, a teacher, when I was studying ceramics, gave us the asignment of making an object that we absolutely hated. Every detail had to be considered, and the worst one chosen. Ugliest form, weirdest colour, etc. Of course, after all that effort you end up with something ugly that you absolutely love, like a bull dog. Maybe because we HAD considered every detail we ended up with a very good piece. ......could be a idea for the next forum challenge.

Thanks for all the advice guy's (and TL) Concensus seems to be with the clients wishes so I'll make them "much the same". Should be able to sneak the base diameter down to the same diameter as the cup without her noticing

IDEA!!! Whoever made it actually left a recess in the base from chucking it (strange way to do a goblet eh!). Reckon I'd get away with remounting it, turning down the base to the same diameter as the cup and telling her it was always that size???

Getting in late on this one TTIT.

By all means do what the customer wants....don't dick around with the design, might come back and bite you on the a** if you do.

Good luck, mate!

Seconding 's design comments...

I made a goblet that had similar specs:

I wanted it to be alcohol safe
I wanted it to be sturdy
I wanted it to be pretty (it was a wedding cup) - it had two floating rings on it.

I personally don't have a problem with a big foot on a cup, but this can be mitigated with a thinner foot, a thinner stem and beads up near the cup to draw your eye there, finally the cup can be reshaped a bit to take attention from the bottom-heavy-ness.

Cheers

Cam

There's nothing wrong with a wide foot; if you look closely at antique goblets they all had large feet. Smaller feet didn't become popular until mid-Victorian times (I think) and it's one of the methods of dating 'em.

Given that "the big foot stops it tipping when she's refilled it too many times" I imagine that it also needs the thick stem.

As the stem is also so short, if you moved the bead up to the base of the bowl then you're left with the decision of "what to do with the rest of the stem?" Another bead at the junction of the foot would look too cluttered... (purely IMHO) and smoothly curving it into the foot would have the effect of making the foot look even chunkier.

Glad it's not my decision.

I would modify the bowl so the bottom is rounder, a more "full" shape. A la a brandy snifter. That would not only improve the form but would lower the centre of gravity, making it even more stable.

It'd also mean the stem becomes less visually important and you could get away without the bead at all, or turning it into a more subtle detail.

I dunno... That is a pretty chunky stem. I think that it could be thinned a little and still be strong.

As for the bowl of the cup - I also notice that the base of the cup is wider than the mouth... This adds a feeling of bottom-heaviness to it. Maybe going for straighter sides might also change the look a bit.

Cheers

Cam

I have never turned a goblet, but I admire those who can/do especially the really thin stemmed ones. Anyway I suppose one on the determining factors in the overall finished design is the amount of wall thickness in the "bowl" section. If the bowl is already pretty thin it limits the re-shaping that can be done. That's my two cents worth and that's about all it's worth .

I like to drink from anything that doesn't leak. The only goblet I have made to date leaks - it's not the mess, it's the waste.
Bruce

Perhaps to be the dissenting voice regarding clients wishes.

I agree that the clients wish is the correct choice and that the object being made is to anothers taste and idea of beauty - however I also feel that it is appropriate for a wood worker to discuss their conceptual issues with the client to ensure that it is in fact a considered opinion and not just (as someone else said) the way the previous guy happened to do it.

I arrive at this dissenting opinion for several reasons. Perhaps there is a functional reason for a design idea or perhaps it is simply a decision born from misinformation or lack of design awareness.Perhaps the client is not aware of structural problems inherent in their design.Perhaps they have not considered other alternatives or seen that the design is flawed.

I have been guilty in the past of trying to change a clients design (and apologised to him when I realised that I was trying to build his item to my ideas) but from that discussion came a hybrid of the two approaches which worked out better in the long run for the client.

I am not a professional turner and would not be able to turn out one of these goblets let alone three of them, but I do make stuff and with that comes an awareness of what works / doesn't work and what other options may exist.

For example, I make dolls beds and dolls cots (amongst other toys) and was recently presented with an order for a specific dolls bed that I could see would be too skinny in width for the length requested to look in proportion. When I discussed the issue with the client, she realised that she had read the measurements wrong and if it wasn't for my considered opinion that the proportion was screwy, I would have invested time and effort in an item that I would have had to redo.

I am not saying to throw out the clients desire for your own idea, but perhaps it is the role of the professional to give guidance and information to the client. Also, I teach anatomy in my normal job, and there is a rule in anatomy that "form follows function follows form". Or in other words the structure of a thing is affected by its function which is affected by its structure.

Just a thought

What's the saying, beauty is in the eye of the person who pays for it .

On the second part of your question about a food safe finish which I don't think has been answered yet I asked ubeaut this and they said shellawax. Leave it for atleast three weeks after applying to allow it to be set properly, wah it with some water and your set to go. Waterproof, food safe and resistant to alcohol.

BJ

Originally Posted by regulated

What's the saying, beauty is in the eye of the person who pays for it .

I like that - sums it up nicely - reckon that's the way I'll go with it (but I won't sign them)

Originally Posted by regulated

On the second part of your question about a food safe finish which I don't think has been answered yet I asked ubeaut this and they said shellawax. Leave it for atleast three weeks after applying to allow it to be set properly, wah it with some water and your set to go.

Right under my nose the whole time Already got plenty of the good stuff too.

Originally Posted by regulated

...... and resistant to alcohol.

Unlike most woodies I know

I have heard that Shellawax works - I personally love the stuff - but for a goblet that will be seeing frequent use I would prefer something a bit thicker and more plasticky.

What I have done in the past is finish the inside and outside with several coats of Shellawax - then get some fresh water-based polyU and pour in into the cup. Run it around to get a nice thick, even coat, then hang upside down to let the waste polyU drip out - this is quite a wasteful way to do it, but it ends up with a very even coat and it can be as thick as you have the patience to keep on repeating the process.

When I first tried it - it was just a concept that I hoped would work - after 4 coats this way I had a very thick polyU lining on the inside of a beautifully finished cup (even if I do say so myself) - and I was very relieved.

Cam

Is it right to assume that everyone loves all aspects of everything you design and make? If that is the case then use your own design, lose a friend and , allow the person who wants them to be PO'd at him for not doing what he aparently promised then, if necessary, you can easily sell them to someone else.
Personally, I don't think the requested design is too bad.

Originally Posted by CameronPotter

.................- after 4 coats this way I had a very thick polyU lining on the inside of a beautifully finished cup (even if I do say so myself) - and I was very relieved.

Reckon it will stand the test of time Cam??? I've seen poly peel off pine after 5 or 6 years - wondering if the wax underneath it might allow it to lift later on

Originally Posted by oldiephred

Is it right to assume that everyone loves all aspects of everything you design and make? If that is the case then use your own design, lose a friend and , allow the person who wants them to be PO'd at him for not doing what he aparently promised then, if necessary, you can easily sell them to someone else.
Personally, I don't think the requested design is too bad.

Once my blood pressure subsided, I realised you had a valid point Phred. It's a view of the situation I certainly hadn't fully considered and it reinforces my earlier response to Regulated.
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..........must be gettin' too big for me boots 'cos it still feels like asking Vivaldi to write country music or Schumacher to race in a Mr Whippy van - just not cricket