Thread: P&N Chisels . Whats this Gouge ?

Hello Rob, from memory, the collets are 3/8" or 10mm, 1/2" and 5/8", ER25. The mortice is only deep enough for the tang to clear, about 50mm, so double enders are not usable with those handles. I do have the woodcut hollow handle with the set of collets, which I use with double ender solid bar chisels.

Originally Posted by auscab

There's a 1" roughing gouge amongst them and this other Gouge next to it at 1.5" wide

Have to admit I've had and used PnN tools since the first ones they made and I can't from memory ever recall them making a 1.5" German Spindle Gouge. I think what you have there is probably one of their early 40mm low profile roughing gouges, before they made the deep fluted ones.

Most of the roughing gouges looked like that back then. Ranging from around 1" to 2" with the typical low profile and mostly coming out of UK and Germany.

Below is a price list from back in 2001 with what I reckon you have, marked, also a pic (nicked from Lee Valley Tools) of full set of the later tools. I'm not at the factory until next Wed so can't find the original P&N Catalogue, if I still have one.

I could be wr, wr, wr, wrong, the brain's not as sharp as it was 20 years ago but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

P&N.jpg
b62f033502b98ccd2ecea36c6299c9af[1].jpg

Cheers - Neil

Thanks for that info and the pictures Neil.
After giving it a bit of a clean up the other day I noticed it had details I didn't see at first.
Its doesn't seem to be milled or ground like the 1" deeper SRG which shows the marks up the inside from that process.
It looks like it was pressed while hot into that shape maybe? Its got three sections in it from that pressing which transfers to the back but not as distinct.
And the surface scale from when hot is still its outer surface . A bit sort of pock marked . My pictures weren't close enough to catch that well.
These could be something you recognize?



IMG_9293.JPG IMG_9294.JPG




Rob

Originally Posted by ubeaut

Have to admit I've had and used PnN tools since the first ones they made and I can't from memory ever recall them making a 1.5" German Spindle Gouge. I think what you have there is probably one of their early 40mm low profile roughing gouges, before they made the deep fluted ones.

Most of the roughing gouges looked like that back then. Ranging from around 1" to 2" with the typical low profile and mostly coming out of UK and Germany.

Cheers - Neil

Whats in a name? Continental / German Spindle Gouge or Low Profile SRG. I had the same thoughts about what P&N called them and went looking online for an old catalogue or older images of P&N tools, with little success. Bruce Bell's Woodturning & Tymba Gallery n Toowoomba used to promote P&N.

How quickly we forget that in the ancient art of wood turning, "milled" gouges are a fairly recent innovation thank's to Peter Child, and others no doubt. Prior to that our tools were all forged into the profile of choice. A personal view of bowl gouges (peterchild.co.uk)

We also forget that prior to the 1960's "bowl gouges" were all forged and had relatively shallow flutes, a "fragile" tang etc or turners used forged hook tools.

Now we have many tool options that reduce potential hazards, through a wide choice of tool profiles, "better" and more consistent tool steels, and even powder metallurgy technology to manufacture tools.

Originally Posted by auscab

...using a Crown 1 3/4" SRG here on a laminated Oak column.

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Rob

Thanks, Rob

That's a clear example of how the bigger ones can be used almost like a skew on spindle work.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

... "milled" gouges are a fairly recent innovation thank's to Peter Child, and others no doubt. Prior to that our tools were all forged into the profile of choice. A personal view of bowl gouges (peterchild.co.uk)

Yes, it was Peter's son Roy who was the innovator there, as outlined in the thread I started on the development of the bowl gouge...

A brief history of the bowl gouge

Jerry Glaser was also innovating on the other side of the Atlantic about the same time.

Originally Posted by NeilS

Yes, some big bag gouges there, chaps.

Chris - that SRG is going to take a mightly large bite if used in the wrong place! It looks very similar to the 1-3/4" SRG from Hamlet, tap on 1-3/4 button to get the proportions.

At that size it could almost be used like a skew along the spindle before a final finishing cut with the skew.

If the tang is the same size as on the Hamlet, I'd only be taking the very lightest of shaving with it. If it were mine I don't think I would add a longer handle to it otherwise I might be tempted to test the limits of that tang.

Yes on all counts Neil. The tang is only the thickness of the gouge itself so I won't be putting too much trust in it although it does feel solid with a normal SRG presentation and it is surprisingly easy to manage. As I said, the wings were worring me a bit but I will now try a bit of a reshape to sweep them back a bit. I'm sure you could use it as a skew and I'll give it a go at some stage.
Chris

Originally Posted by NeilS

There is quite a weight in these larger gouges and they also need longer and heavier handles which adds further to their weight.

Weighed my 1" BG and, no surprise, it was almost 1.6kg.

Wt of 1in BG with handle.jpg

Some of that weight sits on the tool rest, but it is still a large hunk of steel to be swinging about without needing a little rest every now and then...