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  1. #1
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    Default P&N Chisels . Whats this Gouge ?

    Here's some of my chisels .
    The rough looking P&N are the five on the left . Ive hardly used them . There's a 1" roughing gouge amongst them and this other Gouge next to it at 1.5" wide.
    Is it a roughing gouge as well ? Intended to be used up on its edge ? For heavy duty roughing or what ? Ive never really noticed anything like it looking at other wood turning chisel and Roughing gouge options. And Ive not looked at old P&N catalogues. Do any exist ?

    The Black handled Skew chisels are a 16 and 19 mm round I made and haven't really had much use either. Ive played around with a few different grinds on them and have to settle on something I like. Do a better job on them .

    IMG_9253a.jpg IMG_9255a.jpg

    Thanks . Rob

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  3. #2
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    Rob, it's a "traditional"* spindle gouge. They are not common. I have one and use it for roughing and larger spindle work.

    I have rounded the nose profile to make it more user friendly, it lessons the chances of catastrophic catches, that the hard, sharp wings are known for.
    Gouges.jpg

    32mm P&N SRG, 34mm P&N Spindle Gouge, 50mm Unknown Spindle Gouge.
    *These gouges are sometimes called "Traditional, German or Continental" gouges.
    Pat
    Work is a necessary evil to be avoided. Mark Twain

  4. #3
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    Its called a "German Spindle Gouge" or a "Continental Spindle Gouge" and is used in a similar manner as a "Spindle Roughing Gouge" BUT (and its a bit but) not like how it is sharpened in the photo. It should be sharpened either like the P&N SRG beside it or with swept back edges, somewhat like a bowl gouge.

    Continental Style Spindle Gouges (robert-sorby.co.uk)
    Hamlet Gouges | Henry Taylor Tools
    Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: German Spindle Gouges
    Hamlet German Spindle Gouge (toolsandtimber.co.uk)
    Mobyturns

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  5. #4
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    OK . Thanks Pat and Mobyturns.

    So for roughing work and for finer shaping of long curves on say large table legs and table columns with the Grind like Pats and
    the swept back Bowl gouge style ?
    And would it be used in large bowl or platter hollows or is that not a good idea ?

    Are the sides not upright enough like a bowl gouge for that ?

    Rob.

  6. #5
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    Rob, treat as a SRG for bowls . . . Not to go near cross grain/faceplate work. The danger is that the tang could break with a significant catch.

    P&N did a 22mm Bowl gouge for larger faceplate work, they are a lot of fun, with a correctly sized handle.
    Pat
    Work is a necessary evil to be avoided. Mark Twain

  7. #6
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    First thing to say Rob is that you should sleep with that P&N SRG under your pillow. IMO, they are the RRs of SRGs and becoming as rare as hen's teeth and much sought after now.

    Few SRGs came/come with a sturdy milled tang like they have. Most other offerings have relatively flimsy forged tangs that are at risk of bending/snapping.

    On the 'continental' gouge, the only area on a bowl that I would use that on would be the outside of a bowl or platter (see video below). Neither the SRG nor continental gouge should go anywhere near the inside of a bowl. That is what 'bowl' gouges are for...

    Robo Hippy (Reed Gray) has a video showing how you can do a finishing cut on the outside of a bowl using a SRG and you could use that continental gouge in the same way.

    robo hippy Bowl Finish Cuts with a Spindle Roughing Gouge - YouTube

    PS - you get a similar finishing cut with a swept back bowl gouge by dropping the handle right down and cutting with the wing to produce a steep shear cut. As I already have the bowl gouge in my hand I prefer to do it that way.

    PPS - As Pat pointed out, larger gouges like those two of yours benefit from much longer handles than they came with.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



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    Nice cut.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post

    P&N did a 22mm Bowl gouge for larger faceplate work, they are a lot of fun, with a correctly sized handle.
    Yes, they came with a handle that was far too short for the gouge size.

    Likewise, with the Crown 1" bowl gouge. It needed a much longer handle than it came with. Not that too many of us would be buying another one of those at the current price...

    Crown Tools 243XPM 1 Inch PM Bowl Gouge | eBay
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  10. #9
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    Default You're gonna need a bigger blank!

    Hey Neil
    How about this one. 50mm roughing gouge! Don't know much about it - no makers marks. Got it from a guy a while ago with some other stuff. It belonged to his Dad so he had no info. Could be shop-made but if so they did a beautiful job of hardening and tempering the working end. I have used it for spindle roughing and it works a treat but the wings are a bit frightening so I might try a bit of a reshape now that I have seen what you wrote. (Picture looks like it is beveled on the inside but that's an optical illusion from the shadow of the rule.)
    Chris
    IMG_20211002_122541.jpgIMG_20211002_122513.jpg

  11. #10
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    P&N were not the only big boy bowl gouges. I have a Kelton, with a replaceable tip, for real heavy duty turning. It has a solid shaft.
    22mm P&N Bowl Gouges and a ring in (L).jpg
    For turning bowls over the 400mm mark the long handled version works the best for me.


    Spare parts.jpg
    Just one or two spares
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Pat
    Work is a necessary evil to be avoided. Mark Twain

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    P&N did a 22mm Bowl gouge for larger faceplate work, they are a lot of fun, with a correctly sized handle.
    This is a P&N 15.8mm bowl gouge alongside a 22mm bowl gouge. Both are extremely good and stay sharp for ages. I would suggest that once you use a very solid 22mm bowl gouge on something with heft, anything else pales into comparison. That said, I would love to try that 25.4mm bowl gouge mentioned, but at that price it is way out of my league.

    Mick.


    P&N_Bowl_Gouges_IMG_20211002_142806.jpg


    P&N_Bowl_Gouges_IMG_20211002_142844.jpg

  13. #12
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    Yes, some big bag gouges there, chaps.

    Chris - that SRG is going to take a mightly large bite if used in the wrong place! It looks very similar to the 1-3/4" SRG from Hamlet, tap on 1-3/4 button to get the proportions.

    At that size it could almost be used like a skew along the spindle before a final finishing cut with the skew.

    If the tang is the same size as on the Hamlet, I'd only be taking the very lightest of shaving with it. If it were mine I don't think I would add a longer handle to it otherwise I might be tempted to test the limits of that tang.


    Quote Originally Posted by Optimark View Post
    This is a P&N 15.8mm bowl gouge alongside a 22mm bowl gouge.

    P&N_Bowl_Gouges_IMG_20211002_142844.jpg
    Mick - that 22mm gouge looks like it has done some work!

    Nice to have as you are not going to get another one like that. A better size than the 1" IMO and definitely a step up from the 19mm, which are also OK when your arms and shoulders are becoming tired towards the end of a session with a larger chunk of wood. There is quite a weight in these larger gouges and they also need longer and heavier handles which adds further to their weight.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    P&N were not the only big boy bowl gouges. I have a Kelton, with a replaceable tip, for real heavy duty turning. It has a solid shaft.
    22mm P&N Bowl Gouges and a ring in (L).jpg
    For turning bowls over the 400mm mark the long handled version works the best for me.
    Good collection of BBB gouges there, Pat. I think you take out the gold there!

    The Kelton replaceable tip design got taken over by Woodcut and they have one of my favourite flute profiles (a true catenary). They still make a 3/4".

    Other than Crown, Hamlet still make a 1" in M2 at a slightly more affordable price, but it will not hold up as well as the Crown M42-Cryo.

    I'd make one observation about these larger gouges. For the number of larger pieces I turn a 3/4" BG is about all that is justified for that purpose. I don't use mine very much, because I don't turn larger pieces that often, because larger pieces just don't sell very quickly.

    Just one larger piece on display in the gallery with my other pieces draws the eye to my work, which helps to sell my other pieces, but those larger pieces will sit there for a long time before someone is prepared to fork out the asking price for a larger piece.

    Having said that I just had notification today that this 24" camphor laurel piece has just sold... ...its book leaf matching mate sold quite a bit earlier in the year.

    That all pays for whatever tools take my fancy, but if I remember correctly that pair of platters were rough turned with 5/8" BG some twenty years ago and that is really all that is needed to turn almost any piece. I know some very competent turners who don't bother with anything more than a 1/2" BG!
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  15. #14
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    Neil, I did a little piece that sat in the gallery for over 5 years . . . but it sold a lot of smaller bowls, The gallery owner was adamant to keep the piece at the gallery, for the wow factor.

    It sold last year.

    Funnily enough, 5 P&N 1/2 bowl gouges were the only gouges used on that job. I didn't have the bigger gouges back then.
    Pat
    Work is a necessary evil to be avoided. Mark Twain

  16. #15
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    Using the lathe again so dugout my gouges for a swiz.
    Coupla of new P&N and a Hosaluk Ibought from Mike when at his place a few years back.
    Picked up the Kelten handles which are a copy of Mikes with a third Allen fastener to get around the patent. Local men’s shed had them and didn’t know what they were.
    They’re handy for the metal spinning tools also.
    My favourites are the homemade finger gouge and the German roughing gouge with the hammer handle. The oval handle seems to align the tool for me.
    I’m no turner but was trained to use the lathe as another machine to make patterns back in the day when these were made in wood.
    We were taught to use a roughing gouge and then scrapers to size accurately to templates or calipers.
    I find the German style gouges ok for large (1200mm dia) foam work.
    H.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

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