Thread: First try at scraper on end grain - difficult

I would sujest you join a club or find someone to show you how yo hollow end grain but for a start you need a bowl Gauge .DON'T use the spindle gauge in side a bowl or hollow form unless you want a trip to A&E .Happy turning but stay safe others will give you some good advice like books and videos to see.

I use my 3/8 detail gouge on end grain, basically it scrapes. to setup adjust tool rest so the cutting edge is at centre of timber.
move gouge away and turn lathe on then place gouge on tool rest and in centre of timber and push it into timber ( no more than a centimetre into job) controlling the gouge roll to the the side and drag out to edge in an arc and continue till you are at required depth.
it took me about 40 egg cups to master the technique. set up is the same for scrapers cutting edge needs to be at centre height! hope this helps
the tool needs to be parallel to bed at centre height!

See if you can find some video of Richard Raffan hollowing boxes with the spindle gouge. I don't use his exact technique but the principles are the same so that hollowing something like a goblet only takes a minute or two and is quite safe. The end grain is no harder than the face - it's all the same bit of wood after all - bit of a mind-set thing I reckon - you just have to find a technique that works for you

Originally Posted by ian thorn

I would sujest you join a club or find someone to show you how yo hollow end grain but for a start you need a bowl Gauge .DON'T use the spindle gauge in side a bowl or hollow form unless you want a trip to A&E .Happy turning but stay safe others will give you some good advice like books and videos to see.

Bowl gouges don't work so well with end grain hollowing. Tis something a little hard to explain in words. Really need to be shown. Using a spindle gouge or a detail gouge with a lady finger grind. You have to start in the middle and work outwards. Opposite to hollowing bowls.

Paradoxically scrapers aren't so good on end grain till you are in a bit. And smaller scrapers work better to get material out. Work from the center outwards again though. Drill a hole nearly to the depth you want to go. This will give you somewhere to start from. You can also get away with a parting tool but they are not terribly happy.

Would be heaps better if you could find someone to show you.

Many Thanks for responses,

Am picking up Raffan video from library tomorrow along with the book "Turning Wood with Richard Raffan" - if there is still no progress then I will ask advice at Mens Shed next time I go to town.

Whilst the Rowley book and video were great to get me started on spindles I am not finding them easy to follow on this end grain issue.

From what I've read and the posts above, there seems to be some different opinions amongst various experienced turners regarding whether or not its safe or appropriate to use a spindle gouge on end grain -

Rowley, page 80 "Woodturning a foundation course" 1999 - definitely recommends a spindle gouge

Raffan, various pages "Turning Boxes" 1998 - doesn't define the type of gouge, simply says to use a gouge but does specify "shallow rather than deep fluted"

Meanwhile - after searching the forum I found reference to a video on youtube, where a chap called robo hippy, does a complete decent sized bowl with scrapers in less time than it took me to do a little tiny egg cup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKdqiAc0jx4

For me this was amazing - something to aspire to in a few years time perhaps.

And finally, after reading the the posts above I dont understand whether or not a spindle gouge and a detail gouge are the same thing. Both are referred to in the posts above. Are they one and the same ?

Bill

Originally Posted by steamingbill

Meanwhile - after searching the forum I found reference to a video on youtube, where a chap called robo hippy, does a complete decent sized bowl with scrapers in less time than it took me to do a little tiny egg cup.

Now that name rings a bell...

detail gouge and spindle gouges would be the same! I use a ladies finger grind with a bevel ground to 25 to 30 degrees usually closer to 30.

End-grain hollowing with a scraper is perfectly feasible: easy and fast with the right edge treatment and presentation.

Put a big burr on the scraper, either with a coarse wheel or with a diamond hone driven up the bevel or using the Veritas burnisher or a drill rod to 'raise a hook'.

Just cut a few mm of 'bite' at a time.

Refresh the burr often. That will mean first lapping the top with raised hook methods.

If you plan to do a lot of it, look at using TCT cutters.

Also with that small a piece of Pine, try an acute bevel angle. Have a go at say 45 degrees. Provides a better (but shorter lasting) edge with more clearance.

Gday goo to club or watch all the videos you can.
Ditch the pine and try some hard wood.
Take ttit advice.
Welcome to the beginning of the journey.
Mick

Sometime ago Hughie posted a video clip of Richard Raffan using a spindle gouge to hollow endgrain, see here.

Think of it as spindle turning, from the inside => out.

If you are proficient with the spindle gouge you might like to give it a go, otherwise stick with a narrow scraper, roll it well over into a shear position, and work from the inside => out, towards you (opposite side to where Raffan is working).

The admonition to never use a spindle gouge on end grain comes from trying to use a big spindle ROUGHING gouge. Too much metal in contact with the turning and thin connection to the handle. The tang breaks at that point and throws the gouge into your face.

With lots of experience and strong tools the above rule can be broken. But not by me.

A 10 - 12mm spindle gouge on its side, top facing right, inserted just left of center, will bore right in. Twist a bit counterclockwise for more bite. A same size bowl gouge with a fingernail grind will work the same.

The top Bedan looking tool in the photos below started just to the left of center with the top at the center will also go right in. It is about 12mm square.

I grind it upside down to make a nice big burr, then undercut a bit on the front and sides. It is made from some scrap mystery metal.

The lower one was a chisel a blacksmith made from a file. I reground it and put a handle on it. I use it as a heavy scraper and grind it the same as the above. It is about 18mm square. Before I had a bowl gouge I used these tools for roughing and hollowing.

If you have enough horsepower and strong scrapers you can hog out a lot of timber in a short time, a la Robo Hippy.

Originally Posted by Paul39

The admonition to never use a spindle gouge on end grain comes from trying to use a big spindle ROUGHING gouge. Too much metal in contact with the turning and thin connection to the handle. The tang breaks at that point and throws the gouge into your face.

With lots of experience and strong tools the above rule can be broken. But not by me.

Nor me.

Even with lots of experience, I would never consider an SRG to be a suitable tool for hollowing out anything.

As already mentioned, the best way to approach end-grain hollowing is to think of it as inside-out spindle turning. Yes, the result may look like a bowl, but the approach is exactly the opposite of turning side-grain bowls and forms where you hollow out by turning towards the centre.

Tip: pre drill your hollow to the required depth. That prevents you from hollowing too deep and also gets you started working from the inside => out.

has put up a YouTube vidio that shows why even experienced turners should not use a spindle roughing gauge for bowl turning.
Cheers Frank