Thread: Turning/design efforts

I think it's worth remembering that there's been a fairly heavy influx of beginner turners to the forum. (Not even "novice" grade yet.)

There's not much point in being critical of final appearance or form if they're still trying to master the tools and form is basically beyond their control. In the early days a bit of encouragement helps, even if it is only "you chose a nice wood."

I'm not saying we should praise crap but there's no need to bag a beginner. It doesn't earn anyone any points and early on criticism can be more discouraging than an encouragement, no matter how well intentioned it may be. On the other hand, there's nothing to stop people from giving advice, saying "I would have done XXX instead because YYY." Not criticism, but just gentle pointers...

However, once they start offering small critiques of their own work or otherwise ask for critiques, then the velvet gloves can come off and one can be more forthright.

I am one of those newbies
If my lathe would not have the problems it has (and I am not oing into that) I might have more confidence to venture further.
Space $$$$ and health for me are all part of not be more forth coming or/and producing works or any sort.

I am my own wrost critic I punish myself form the lack of professionalism I know I can achieve.

I was going through the archive and am amazed at guys I see now producing works of art who were fledglings long ago.

I am off to Hawkesbury Turners open day this saturday tomorrow hopefull so I can learn speak and spend time with masters.

Bugger obviously not well can't think straight today at all.

I agree if praise isnt or shouldn't be given then dont, but maybe advice some times looks like an over bloated attempt to sidetrack the issue.

I would encourage constructive criticism too, and have provided some as have other regulars on this subforum.

I don't recall you ever providing any however Christopha and if my memory is right, perhaps you should be thinking about 'walking your talk'.

... or else, as our 'seppos' might say, get off the pot.

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

there's no need to bag a beginner. It doesn't earn anyone any points and early on criticism can be more discouraging than an encouragement, no matter how well intentioned it may be.

Skew, I think you've made a good point, but there is a very real difference between 'bagging' and constructively criticising. I believe constructive criticism is even more important for a beginner.

I don't classify myself as anything but a beginner, having had five lessons and probably 15 hours of turning in five years, and I have to say my teacher was not backward in suggesting improvements, and I learnt more in those five Saturdays than many learn in a few years by themselves.

Ern,

Unless I've missed something, I think Christopha's changed his medication. You may well be surprised!

Cheers,

P

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

Also seems to have hit the jokes forum.

Ain't that the truth!

G'Day Christopha

As a "newbie" I have posted quite a few pics on this forum and asked and expected criticism about them. Because of some honest criticism I believe my work has improved, and hopefully will continue to do so.
I also take great interest in pics of work done by people who consider they are experienced enough to offer to critique on others' work. I have on occasions saved the pics and referred back to themas something to aim for. Unfortunately these type of pics are few and far between, so I would urge please show us some of your work so we can all benefit. I know we can use the search function to find some, but I can't find any for some posters, so don't be shy.
Meantime please feel free to criticise my work as this is why I post the pics. If I want accolades my wife can always supply them.

Cheers
Bernie

Chris, I reckon there is always a way of

gently suggesting improvements in order to actively encourage people without causing offence?

, it comes down to how carefully the words are chosen, the manner in which they are delivered, and the typical tone of the poster as to how they are taken.

A lot of newbie turners, myself included, put up pics to show off an item they are particularly chuffed with. I think it's reasonable to expect some constructive criticism, a lot of how it is taken has to do with the three points I mentioned above.

It takes knowledge of design, time, and thought, to do this for each time a new item is put up, so unless a critique is specifically asked for, a number of members would just rather pick out a positive and comment on that, rather than say nothing. Encouragement goes a long way at the bottom of the learning curve.


Cheers.................Sean

Scooter, you managed to clearly say exactly what I was trying to fumble my way across.

Scooter,
Well said and fully agree with you. Some folks may forget that at some stage we are all newbies.

My observation is that there are alot very talented and helpful turners here and then there are those who, for a million different reasons are a work in progress.






The truth is we are all a work in progress

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Many, if not most serious design courses subject students to a "critique" of each of their projects, by both their peers and lecturers. It is often surprising to the student to discover that his/her work isn't held in the same light by others,

Double edged sword this one. I remember my first "crit" and it was an eye opener not only for me but for all others involved.
When it comes to students critiqueing other students, its more one-upmanship than honest appraisal, and even then they havnt the necessary knowledge or experience to do it properly.
After a few months of design theory they are all experts, and all to often it isnt good advice and thats where the experience and knowledge of the lecturer comes into play. Accepting criticism is one of the best ways to improve your craft, but you shouldnt take it as fact.
Its probbably not a bad idea to have a look at the work of those who are doing the crits. If you like there style and technical quality, take it on board. If you think its just average and amateurish, then think about it a bit harder.

Woodturing is rather a large area and a lot of things to remember for the beginner, my own work needs to improve a lot and i think i have turned out a few okay turnings but still a long way to go, the thing is the way some one tells you what you might or could have done to improve a turning, in the design the wood or the finish of the turning. Unfortunately there are those that do not think before they say something, my last turning on here was seen on another site and had a reply that:
...........................................................................
Personally............. I dont like it

It's to small, to busy, the curves and coves are unbalanced, timber is to figured for such a piece, a simpler shape and form using oak would look much better, but hey, that's my opini
............................................................................
I think if i were a real begginer that it would have caused some friction as it is, i am my own crittic and can always see my own faults, and we always have our own taste in what we like or dislike, just because we don't like something does not mean that it is not good or turned badly, make it constructivly not put the turner down, we all learn some more quickly than others, and at the end of the day whatever comes of the lathe if you had fun with it then that has to be good, my moan for the day, happy shavings guys. LB.

Originally Posted by arose62

Maybe two threads/fora?

One titled "I'm really proud of this!"
and the other "Critique wanted" ?

Cheers,
Andrew

Good idea. IMHO the best solution would be to have a specific forum titled "My work -critique wanted" so that everybody knows what they are going to get, and move the "I'm really proud of this" items to the blogs. If moderators had the time and the patience to do a bit of education in this regard and redirecting if necessary after establishing the intention of the poster, it should work a treat.

Of course, nothing stops brown noses from being brown noses, but at least there is no equivocation on what is expected. Encouragement does not require hypocrisy. And beginners genuinely in awe of mediocre results because they do not know any better should become more aware of the merits of their contribution.

Please, please do this! So the straight shooters (or other less "encouraging" description ) like myself won't feel bad for not joining the conga line of more generous people!

As a newbie turner, I have not posted anything because I don't feel my work is up to the level that I see on here. Maybe one day I will have something, but until then I will have an empty shelf.

Simplest would be for the thread title to invite comments.

A separate forum would end up in overlaps IMO as discussion got down to 'how do you do this'.