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  1. #1
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    Default The development of the woodturning chuck

    This thread was prompted by another thread that was asking for help to identify an old chuck style, so I thought it was about time we did a thread like this one before we all forget what we might have known.

    During most of the history of woodturning lathes were human powered; being either a bow, pole or treadle lathe, but also sometimes cranked by a second person.

    Bowls were typically attached to the lathe with a cylindrical mandrel that was driven into the blank with spikes (drive dogs) at one end and held by a pin in one of the stocks at the other end. The drive cord looped around the mandrel to rotate the blank and the other end of the blank was held by a pin in the other stock. With the pole lathe the rotation was in one way, then the other, with each treadle cycle.

    Mandrel.jpg
    From Pg12 of Robin Wood's
    excellent book on
    The Wooden Bowl

    Robin Wood can be seen mounting a bowl blank by this holding method in the following brief video, battle of the bowlturners - YouTube

    With the introduction of external power sources the mandrel was replaced by pulleys inside or at the back of the headstock and the blanks were then secured to the rotating headstock shaft via a faceplate and a number of screws or a single larger centre screw. Those methods are still with us in various forms and used to varying amounts by individual turners.


    With faceplates also came jam chucking, which became quite 'the thing to do' before modern chucking came along. It provided a way of holding bowls to finish off their bases, but it was also a way of holding other pieces that required access without the tailstock in place. Stuart Battye still uses this method of chucking that he learned from his father.

    Another method of securing pieces was the use of glue (like hot melt) to a sacrificial piece attached to the faceplate.

    The modern era of chucking began in the 1950s when Myford brought out a combination three-in-one chuck that could be used as a small faceplate, screw chuck and a flange capturing ring, but that had limited uses and functionality.

    During the seventies some of us were playing around with self centering three jawed ‘knuckle killing’ metal lathe chucks.... ouch!


    In the in the meantime, some manufacturers were working on various 'chuck like' devices for holding work by either clamping, capturing or expanding, while others had springs to hold things together or apart and they all had limited sizes and functionality that dictated what could be produced with them:

    In the 1970s the Childs developed what they called their spring or coil chuck. Again, it had limited uses unless you wanted the base of your pieces to all look the same. It was short lived.

    The Coil Grip Deep Hollowing Chuck

    Another almost forgotten 'innovation' was their pin chuck.

    Pin Chucks for the Woodturning Lathe

    It was Roy Child, Peter's son, who developed those. He later developed (unknown date?) the Masterchuck, which was manufactured by Henry Taylor and that had contracting and expanding jaws, but with a limited 7mm travel. There were only two jaw sets available; a 1-1/2" dovetail recess or externally onto a 7/8" spigot for small projects and 1" dovetail recess or externally onto a 3/8" spigot for tiny projects.

    The Masterchuck for the Woodturning Lathe

    Major innovations are rarely without their progenitors and the 6 in 1 Universal chuck developed by Nick Davidson in Sheffield added the first commercially expanding jaws that would fit into a dovetail recess, so predated the Child Masterchuck. Nick went on to be involved with Craft Supplies in the UK and other suppliers then took over the manufacture of similar fiddly and cumbersome chucks, like Sorby's Precision Combination Chuck and the Record RP3000 (right).


    I have one of those early three jaw dovetail chucks that I dug out of a bottom drawer where it was gathering dust. The spring held the jaws together and the cones pushed the jaws apart when screwed into the back plate. As can be seen, it had its limitations, but it foreshadowed where chucks were going.


    It wasn't until 1988 that Teknatool released the “first four-jaw scroll self centering chuck designed especially for woodturning”. https://www.teknatool.com/about/comp...uct-time-line/

    This then became the standard configuration for all subsequent woodturning chucks with the design becoming ubiquitous with all major manufacturers adopting this basic design. This was a significant improvement on what had been available before then and it made bowl chucking a far more pleasant experience from then on.

    Adaptors became available to fit a wide range of lathe thread sizes. Various chuck sizes, jaw configurations, operating keys methods and accessories followed, but the basic design has remained the same for over 30 years now. So, they got that design pretty well right!

    A single key to clamp or open the chuck that allowed for a one handed operation while maneuvering the blank with the other hand, instead of a pair of tommy bars, was another welcome innovation by Teknatool that came out around about then.


    IMO, some of the notable additions to the jaw options have been the faceplate rings and long nosed jaws that are invaluable for outboard turners like myself.

    Both Cole and Longworth jaws were welcome developments.

    And, other innovations, like the eccentric chuck, had an appeal for some turners.

    Along the way some turners took up vacuum chucking as the only way to go while others of us managed to get along without that.

    Steadies were another development that is related to chucking, including string steadies.

    From what I can see there have been no new significant chuck developments for at least a decade, which is good because we can now just concentrate on getting more chucks and jaws so that we can have dedicated chucks with their own jaw sets and don’t have to keep changing jaws and trying to find dropped screws in the shavings…

    Have I got any of that wrong?

    Have I missed any significant steps along the way?

    Does anyone have an identified chuck to add to this photo gallery for the next time someone comes along and asks…. does anyone know what chuck this is?
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



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  3. #2
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    In the 80's before the scroll chuck became common, Teknatool introduced a chuck fitted with four floating jaws that could be used in compression for a spigot, or in expansion mode. It was designed to be used turning green timber. The jaws were made to float to accommodate the change in shape, caused by drying, of the recess in the bottom of the bowl for re chucking. The jaws were made from bronze so that staining of the green timber, would not happen. It was supplied with two "C" spanners to open and close the jaws. It was also supplied with a screw chuck. In use it was very efficient but almost needed an assistant to use.

    The jaws of the first scroll chucks were also made from bronze for the same reason. I will get some photos of the chuck in the morning.

    Jim
    Sometimes in the daily challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really important...

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by powderpost View Post
    In the 80's before the scroll chuck became common, Teknatool introduced a chuck fitted with four floating jaws that could be used in compression for a spigot, or in expansion mode. It was designed to be used turning green timber. The jaws were made to float to accommodate the change in shape, caused by drying, of the recess in the bottom of the bowl for re chucking. The jaws were made from bronze so that staining of the green timber, would not happen. It was supplied with two "C" spanners to open and close the jaws. It was also supplied with a screw chuck. In use it was very efficient but almost needed an assistant to use.

    The jaws of the first scroll chucks were also made from bronze for the same reason. I will get some photos of the chuck in the morning.

    Jim
    Yes, Jim, I should have remembered and included that one in the sequence.

    I never did have or get to use one of those myself, although I did know of it and should have remembered it. I was a bit strapped for funds at that time and then went with the scroll chuck when I could afford it.

    It would be great to have some photos of that chuck of yours, Jim, added to this thread.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  5. #4
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    This is a Teknatool chuck designed to be used with green timber. The jaws are made from bronze to prevent staining when steel jaws are used. The four jaws are "floating" and would self adjust to the distorted shape that develops as the wood dries. The jaws could also be used in compression as well as expansion mode. The third photo shows the slots that allow the jaws to "float". There is a cone shaped insert that (not shown), when inserted and tightened operates the expansion mode.
    Attachment 490846Teknatool chuck1S.jpgTeknatool chuck2S.jpg

    Woodfast screw chuck

    This one came in a male and female form. The male form had a coarse thread, requiring a 7/8" hole (about 20mm). This is very handy when making a natural edge bowl from the outer flitch of a log when the bark is to be preserved. The female form was very handy for spindle turning when one end only is being held. The thread cut on the spigot made it easy to remove and rechuck accurately


    Woodfast screw chuck1.jpg


    Just remembered another one that Woodfast produced. the Richard Raffan chuck. I will get some photos tomorrow.

    Jim
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    Sometimes in the daily challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really important...

  6. #5
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    Thanks, Jim. Those fill in some significant gaps.

    They also remind me that I have some more early Woodfasts buried away somewhere that I should try to find and add to the rogues gallery.

    Do you know where Richard Raffan's chuck came into the timeline?
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post

    They also remind me that I have some more early Woodfasts buried away somewhere that I should try to find and add to the rogues gallery.
    OK, here is the Woodfast Multi Grip and the Super Chucks (the two on right).

    The parts list for the Multi Grip Chuck. There was two sizes.



    The jaws for both are made from aluminium but their jaw profiles are very different for expansion mode. By the time of the Multi Grip Chuck they had settled on the dovetail profile, but the earlier (?) Super Chuck had a small 'v' ridge that pressed out into a vertical sided recess that didn't have a lot of purchasing power. A dedicated spade like bit (I have one somewhere) was supplied for each jaw size.



    The multi-step compression jaws on the Multi Grip Chuck (which are also dovetail) look a lot like the Richard Raffan chuck that Jim has, so I expect that this model came out after the Raffan model. Richard is fond of that style of jaw for holding the bottom of bowls and the like while hollowing.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  8. #7
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    Here is another chuck that you might come across that you might not be able to place in the sequence of developments. It's an Australian made Bonham chuck from the 1990s. According to a reliable source, it is named after the CEO of Carba-Tec at the time, Rod Bonham, and would have been based on the Teknatool two tommy bar scroll chuck design. So it has some good DNA.

    The following one is mine and, unlike some of the others I've dug out of my tool archives, it's still in very regular use. I must have used this one a thousand times without ever needing any attention. It is one of those pieces of equipment that owes me nothing! Being compatible with the Nova jaw sets was a bonus. I also liked the knurled ring on the back plate that allowed for initial clamping or expansion by hand before needing to use the tommy bars.

    Vicmarc brought out a similar two tommy bar chuck to this for a bit and Teknatool still produce and sell theirs in some markets with a dedicated thread size, which they call the Midi. It's a great little scroll chuck design.

    Going by the following webpage, you could probably still get a Bonham made in China!

    Bonham Scroll Chuck of Type02-Machine Tool Accessories
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



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    A good collection there Neil . Bruce Leadbetter also produced a chuck which was designed to expand into a recess cut with a tool he supplied with the chuck .
    Ted

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    I started woodturning in a shop class in 1962. Just the basic faceplate was available with creative holding systems. Changed schools in 1964, and my new shop teacher was also a machinist, that began my lessons on chucks. I was already in to making game calls, duck calls, on the wood lathe, drilling the tone channel was a case of end drilling a 5/8" dowel about 3 inches deep.

    The teacher showed me how to make a collet chuck that screwed on the threads of the headstock, like the Beall Tool chucks, but made out of wood and CRUDE. But it worked. Cut down on mistakes by 50 to 75%.

    Next was a version of the 4 jaw chuck, what this was I did not know at the time, but simply a cheap metal lathe chuck that he changed the threads on. When I graduated, I was with out access to the 4 jaw chuck, so I picked up a metal lathe and used it to turn wood.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerted View Post
    A good collection there Neil . Bruce Leadbetter also produced a chuck which was designed to expand into a recess cut with a tool he supplied with the chuck .
    Ted
    Thanks, Ted.

    I never got to use any of Bruce's gear, but maybe Woodfast picked up some of his designs.

    Here is the boring bit that I still have, for what reason I hung on to it I can't imagine! I never liked the jaws and stopped using them as soon as I could, so why hang onto the bit!!!

    I've propped the bit up so the cutter edge can be seen... used the only thing I could readily lay my hands on to do that with....in one of my salt glazed bottles (I was a potter in another life ).
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  12. #11
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    Last batch of chucks out of my archives....

    Two metal lathe chucks in front. I still use the one of the left for doing metal stuff on the wood lathe, like making metal ferrules for turning tool handles, but otherwise safely retired from woodturning while I still have both hands intact.

    The two behind on the right are cup (jam) chucks... suitable for production turning where the blanks are all dimensioned to suit. Probably got those to turn something like wooden eggs, but they got little to no use.

    Old style screw chuck, back left.

    All of these predate the development of the modern scroll chuck with jaws specifically designed for woodturners.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



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    Thanks Neil,

    That's really interesting reading.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogcatcher View Post

    The teacher showed me how to make a collet chuck that screwed on the threads of the headstock, like the Beall Tool chucks, but made out of wood and CRUDE. But it worked.
    Yes, DC, unless you were spindle turning, making your own chucks was part and parcel of woodturning prior to the development of the modern chuck.

    Here is a page (p141) from Peter Child's 1970's book that shows a shop made collet chuck (he called it a pinch chuck) along the lines of the one you were using. That same page shows the Myford three-in-one chuck from the 1950s, that I referred to in my initial post, which started the long evolution towards the development of the modern chuck.

    The need to make your own chucks explains the popularity of all of those complex and fiddly chuck arrangements that came to the market prior to the scroll chuck. Those early byways in the development of the modern chuck may have been fiddly, but they did eliminated the time taken to make your own chucks, as well as providing new ways of holding blanks.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post
    This thread was prompted by another thread that was asking for help to identify an old chuck style....
    And, here is the link to the first post in that other thread, the one that prompted his thread, with some good photos from Doragus of the early chuck design that he has, which is another example of the many different chuck designs that were tried out to find a better way of holding wood on the lathe.

    Interesting Old Chucks
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post
    Thanks, Jim. Those fill in some significant gaps.

    They also remind me that I have some more early Woodfasts buried away somewhere that I should try to find and add to the rogues gallery.

    Do you know where Richard Raffan's chuck came into the timeline?
    Found two old catalogues, one of which is dated 1991, the other one is undated issued before 1991. Must admit they took some finding. The Raffan chuck is featured in the 1991 catalogue, presumably it was introduced about then.

    Jim
    Sometimes in the daily challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really important...

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