Thread: Some Have Difficulty Understanding

speaking of design,shape, form, finish etc. Living in Sydney as I do and dealing with a wide variety of nationalities many of who are first generation. I find that this greatly effects what they will buy.
I have around me many from South East Asia and 'shine' is quality to them and they dont really look for practical, rather want decor items. Shine with the average Aussie wont cut at all usually, its satin or an oiled finish.

I note from living in North America that cookies jars and shiny would be a far better seller than here, as we dont really go in for either. I know I have made a few , so its really horses for courses.

William lives in a small community and thats pretty well the bottom line. Remember OGYT or Allen he lives in a small town in Texas. A fine turner but the local economy effects his prices something shocking. Being retired and liking to travel in his camper van. He often wanders around more popular interstate camping areas and sell his wares that way. Still not making big dollars but the prices are better and he often covers his expenses ie gas etc.

Originally Posted by William Young

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Responses like yours are why I seldom post messages here so I will go back to lurking mode .
always easy to skip over messages by a few clueless ones without getting involved with them. .

Hi william young...don't be discouraged by Tea lady's critique of your your work ...she was under the mistaken impression ( as was I ) that you were asking an opinion as to why your work was not selling for the price you thought it warranted...
mistakes were made by both of you...
.hers was thinking you wanted an honest answer
..yours, was thinking she is clueless..

Quantifying the worth of something is a very intersting exercise. Take an i Phone; it probably is manufactured for $5 but sells for $400ish. Nike runners would have an equally exorbitant mark up but we (the general population) pay these prices. The price of an item often has nothing to do with the manufacturing costs etc. It is all about marketing and convincing the public of its worth.

An interesting case in point: I make salt/pepper grinders and was selling them through some retail outlets but also tried on-line selling. THe on-line selling amounted to very little but the retail sales were OK. In January this year I decided to do a careful cost analysis of the production costs of the grinders and realised I needed to charge an extra $25 for each grinder. However they already were pricey at $90 each so how was I expected to sell them for $115 +GST ($125 wholesale). I also decided that the on-line sales needed to go so I now was going to rely solely on retail sales. THese outlets typically add 100% to the price so the grinders were selling for over $200 each! What to do?

Well, I believed in my product (design and quality) so I thought I needed to market them to those who wanted the best. So, I found a company to make me some cardboard boxes for the grinders, got some stickers made to dress up the boxes and also had an information card printed to go inside the box with the grinder. The overall presentation improved markedly and all for an extra $5.

And the interesting thing is that sales have increased significantly.

I now believe in, what I call, a price no-mans-land. At $160 the grinders were too expensive for the average person but too cheap for those who base their opinion of quality on price. Some outlets are selling them for $245 each.

I have also been careful with the outlets I am prepared to supply.

Take from this what you want.

William, yes, some don't understand the worth of things but sometimes it is a matter of educating them.

Not sure that I have much of use to add to what Brendan, Tea Lady and Underfoot have said.

Just a few musings....

In 1968 I came home to my country town from college having just majored in Art and Ceramics. I had graduated with distinction, so confidently selected the best of my ceramic work and took them to the nearby regional city hoping to get some Christmas time sales. The nearest thing to a craft gallery was a gift store in an arcade. The owner was willing to take my work on consignment and she set up a display of my work in her window. At the end of the holidays I had not sold a single piece... unfortunately it was too late then to give them away as Christmas presents.

What did I learn from that experience? Obviously I didn't have a clue about selling my work or what to do to improve on my first efforts.

In retrospect, 1968 was before the craft 'thing' had reached the country and if I had a market it wasn't in that rural farming area. My market, if I had one, was going to be somewhere else.

About ten years later I was lecturing in ceramics at a college in a capital city. A friend and colleague, the best known potter in that state, had an exhibition of his work at that time in the top art gallery in that city. His feature pieces (the ones on the front and back of the catalogue) were selling (adjusted for inflation) for $5,000. His exhibition sold out.

What did I learn from him? Thirty years of sustained and acknowledged work creates demand for and inceases the value of your work. Feature articles on you in key journals increases your status. Recognition as a leading influence on your peers and generations of students gives you access to the galleries that are positioned in the more lucrative end of the market. Purchase for inclusion in the collection of the state gallery helps some potential buyers to value your work. Purchase by key private collectors and institutions does likewise. Inclusion in travelling collections, taking in-residency positions or being a presenter-demonstrator at high profile workshop events also adds to your cred. Attention to detail and realising that you are selling more than just a pot, or whatever, are important. People are partly buying the story that you are telling about yourself. Also, get comfortable with galleries taking 50% or so of sales price, if they are any good they add more value than they take.

That was ceramics and back at the height of the Craft boom, so some of it doesn't apply to now or craft woodturning. But, some of the principles do still apply... if that is the sort of thing you want to do. So I pass it on for what is worth to anyone who is aiming for that top end of the market.

So, what do I know about pricing my work now? Not a lot more than I did 44 years ago. I still find pricing the most difficult part of the whole process. I still don't always get it right. I have just had one piece sell that has sat in the gallery for about a year and another piece that has been there longer and probably will never sell at the price I have on it. While other pieces sell almost immediately and probably could have been marked higher. Fortunately for me woodturning is a preoccupation, not an occupation. I do attempt to price my pieces so that I don't unfairly undercut anyone for whom it is an occupation. I enjoy the process and fortunately it pays for itself. It's nice to just buy whatever equipment I fancy (other than a VB36... ) without having to justify it to anyone other than myself. And, I must have got something right for the many (in the four digits nowadays) buyers out there around the world who have my work on their shelves, or maybe imposed on someone else as a gift.

If I lived in a beautiful place like rural British Columbia (lucky you William) I think I would be heading out once a year (escaping winter... I assume your roads would be open at times) with a portfolio book and a vehicle full of my work and driving south and visiting galleries along the way. There are (were) some nice galleries in Vancouver, Vancouver Is, the San Juan Is, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Carmel, Santa Barbera, then over to Sedona, etc. Check out what is on display, talk to the gallery owners, show them your portfolio book and hopefully get to leave some work on consignment. And, then you could call that a business trip and not a holiday for tax puposes...

I have been following this thread to see what comes out.

This is based on my own experiences with dealing with the public. I have a small boutique computer consulting business. The clients that I had were repeat clients and all word of mouth.
When a new client called me to do some work the hourly rate was stated and I would not budge on the rate. It was not in the benefit for myself or any competitors to start a price war.

Originally Posted by NeilS

Just a few musings....

I have been mulling over in my mind to post just what NeilS said in the above post.

We have two very nice pieces of art, of any kind, both with good design, flawless workmanship, nicely presented.

A is made by an artist that has studied with Famous Artist, demonstrated and taught at Famous Schools, and exhibits at outrageously chic Famous Gallery.

B is made by an unknown artist.

A will sell for ten or more times what B sells for.

I am a maker of Bs and resent the system that provides the higher price of As.

I am not willing to jump through all the hoops to sell As.

I turn because I'm addicted. I am selling for higher prices and am encouraged by my craft shop seller. So I may sell more stuff at higher prices on merit, rather than rubbing against Famous.

There is also the trap of asking too little, buyers may think there is something wrong with it, or "anything that cheap can't be any good".

There is also the trap of asking too little, buyers may think there is something wrong with it, or "anything that cheap can't be any good

Are yes this comes from the mantra 'you get what you pay for' sadly in this day and age this is often far from the truth.

Originally Posted by NeilS

Just a few musings....

Thirty years of sustained and acknowledged work creates demand for and inceases the value of your work.

So I pass it on for what is worth to anyone who is aiming for that top end of the market.

Excellent post Neil .....(I won't requote the entire post)..
Required reading (imo) for all those that aspire to the "top end"...
(also required reading for those who wonder how the "top end" got there)