Thread: Free hand grinding or a jig

Rob, before CBN I used the white vitreous wheels, as did others. These wheels were slightly cambered to aid in controlling heat and grinding accuracy. The rest was by Veritas. I fancied getting the Wolverine, which were really solid, but the cost was prohibitive all those years ago.

When I moved to the CBN wheels, which were flat and did not wear, it occurred to me that the Tormek rails/guide would do a great job, and make grinding easier and quicker. These guides are available as the BGM-100. I set one up with the blade holder, and another with a flat type similar to the Wolverine. The one is 80- and the other 180 grit. They are interchangeable ...



This is a great system. Takes a little tweaking to set accurately, but once done it makes all so easy. The Tormek system also makes it easy to set the grind angle you want. I freehand hone on the hollow.

Regards from Perth

Derek

They look nice and stable Derek . Great on the straight grinds I bet .

What I really want to know is, does the use of the jig that holds the gouges make a big difference ? Or have people stuck to free hand .

The bowl and spindle gouges, and the roughing gouge . There's a few styles of grind for bowl turning and some of the more complex may only get done on a jig . I suppose it gives a repeatable outcome as they say. And if you can get a repeatable outcome by hand whats the point ?

I have a setup the same as Derek. I find it produces the the repeatable grind for me. Having said that I still freehand grind when it comes to the Stuart Batty 40/40 bowl gouge grind.
I guess i just find it gives me the best of both worlds.

Cheers,
Peter

Rob, as Peter mentions, it is the best of both worlds.

Although CBN has been around quite a long time, it was a secret kept by turners. I was one of the first to dedicate a set up to planes and bench chisels, and published an article on this a half dozen years ago (read if bored): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ningSetUp.html

The Tormek guides allow for sharpening a wide range of chisels and plane blades, including all the turning jigs, as well as freehand (which I also do), and can be switched around with speed.

The CBN on a metal wheel (think heat sink) allows for cool grinds, which can be done even this close to the edge of the blade ...



This level of grinding reduces the effort in honing (as the surface area is now so small).

The flat wheel means a straight edge. The CBN wear very slowly and requires no maintenance of resetting the guides.

It really is a no brainer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by auscab

What I really want to know is, does the use of the jig that holds the gouges make a big difference ? Or have people stuck to free hand .

The bowl and spindle gouges, and the roughing gouge . There's a few styles of grind for bowl turning and some of the more complex may only get done on a jig . I suppose it gives a repeatable outcome as they say. And if you can get a repeatable outcome by hand whats the point ?

I can't comment with any expertise on grinding bench chisels... Derek and DW are your experts with those here on on this forum.

But, I have ground a lot of turning tool steel away over the last fifty years and at least have some opinions on grinding those.

I sharpened freehand for my first thirty years of turning. I became reasonably proficient at that as there was no alternative to doing it that way. That was prior to the first sharpening jigs like the HeliGrind becoming available here. Since then I've used various jigs, including some that I made myself, but eventually settled on the Tru-Grind. The Vari-Grind is another good jig. Can't comment on the Tormek gouge jig, but those that use it are satisfied with it.

I still freehand a few profiles like my big spindle roughing gouge and the 40/40 grind, but use a jig on all of my other gouges and grind profiles. I find using a jig no slower than freehand grinding and much prefer doing it that way. Like all things you get faster with practice.

If you go with one of the well known jigs there will no doubt be members here who will be happy to share their settings with you to get you going.

Originally Posted by NeilS

I sharpened freehand for my first thirty years of turning. I became reasonably proficient at that as there was no alternative to doing it that way. That was prior to the first sharpening jigs like the HeliGrind becoming available here. Since then I've used various jigs, including some that I made myself, but eventually settled on the Tru-Grind. The Vari-Grind is another good jig. Can't comment on the Tormek gouge jig, but those that use it are satisfied with it.

I still freehand a few profiles like my big spindle roughing gouge and the 40/40 grind, but use a jig on all of my other gouges and grind profiles. I find using a jig no slower than freehand grinding and much prefer doing it that way. Like all things you get faster with practice.

If you go with one of the well known jigs there will no doubt be members here who will be happy to share their settings with you to get you going.

Thanks Neil .
That's the sort of opinion I'm chasing atm . Its worth the step up to Jigs for gouges then .

Ive looked at the "Making My own" and could go that way.

I just saw this Carbatec version though. This price is cheap compared to the time in making all that .

Carbatec Spindle & Gouge Sharpening System | Carbatec

It says its new . Maybe so new no one has tried it yet .
If anyone has bought it , are they happy with it ?
Could it be on the flimsy side maybe ?

Originally Posted by auscab

Thanks Neil .
That's the sort of opinion I'm chasing atm . Its worth the step up to Jigs for gouges then .

Ive looked at the "Making My own" and could go that way.

I just saw this Carbatec version though. This price is cheap compared to the time in making all that .

Carbatec Spindle & Gouge Sharpening System | Carbatec

It says its new . Maybe so new no one has tried it yet .
If anyone has bought it , are they happy with it ?
Could it be on the flimsy side maybe ?

I clicked on the link posted, and this system looks identical to Wolverine with the exception of the anodized color. It also looks like this price is about the same as US dollars. It's a good copy of the Wolverine, so it should work pretty good and give you repeatability.

I'm happy with the Wolverine system that I've had for 10 years now. ....... Jerry (in Tucson)USA

Hi Rob. I am no expert necessarily and I was determined to grind freehand. With practice I got pretty good at nearly all profiles except fingernail on my bowl gouge. I built a plywood version of the wolverine and set it up with a third grinder (). Perfect results and very easy to do, even on a coarse grey wheel. I followed the YouTube video and pdf plans from a young German kid.

Interestingly, on the other end of the same grinder is a 1/2" white wheel which I have rounded over and us great for profiling moulding plane blades (although I still have the pink wheels you suggested "watched" on ebay).

Originally Posted by Nubsnstubs

I clicked on the link posted, and this system looks identical to Wolverine with the exception of the anodized color. It also looks like this price is about the same as US dollars. It's a good copy of the Wolverine, so it should work pretty good and give you repeatability.

I'm happy with the Wolverine system that I've had for 10 years now. ....... Jerry (in Tucson)USA

Thanks Jerry .
It does look identical doesn't it !
I thought at first the steel looked less substantial in the Carbatec model . And the Carbatec one was different with the bench mount being extruded Aluminium . But looking closer the Wolverine is also extruded Aluminium in the bench mount and steel sizes look the same .
Shipping is a bit of a killer for US stuff here atm I think .

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Rob. I am no expert necessarily and I was determined to grind freehand. With practice I got pretty good at nearly all profiles except fingernail on my bowl gouge. I built a plywood version of the wolverine and set it up with a third grinder (). Perfect results and very easy to do, even on a coarse grey wheel. I followed the YouTube video and pdf plans from a young German kid.

Interestingly, on the other end of the same grinder is a 1/2" white wheel which I have rounded over and us great for profiling moulding plane blades (although I still have the pink wheels you suggested "watched" on ebay).

MAsh . I saw that Young German Kid video . Looked good .

I also watched this which is a simpler version and thought a couple of them in steel, each set up one per gouge could be the go .
two dollar sharpening jig.avi - YouTube

Or do I just pay and get the C/Tec version ?? Tossing the idea around .

Originally Posted by auscab

I also watched this which is a simpler version and thought a couple of them in steel, each set up one per gouge could be the go .
two dollar sharpening jig.avi - YouTube

That one in the video is based on David Ellsworth's design and would be OK if you made a number of them with the different leg angles for the different bevel angles you want. Early on I made some of those out of wood, plus metal machine screw, but they don't allow for the same flexibility as the swing leg type.

Here is an example of a homemade wooden jig...

Stu's Ellsworth grind jig 1.jpg

And one in metal...

Yet another HM ellsworth jig.jpg

I've also attached a plan for building one. The dimensions are the key element.

One issue for me is the maximum gouge size that some of the commercial jigs will accommodate; some only take gouges up to 5/8".

PS - The CT one looks sturdy enough from what I can see from their website.

Originally Posted by NeilS

... the swing leg type.

Perhaps not so obvious is the ability of the swing leg type of jig to replicate a particular grind that someone else has on their gouge. The Tru-Grind manual that can be downloaded from the Woodcut website has the instructions on how to do that.

See page 11...

https://www.woodcut-tools.com/upload...guide_2018.pdf

This will work with any of the swing leg jigs.

Thanks for posting that information Neil . The swinging leg looks like the best way . And a the ability to hold both typical size and large gouges too . Its Probably best to have at least two.

Originally Posted by auscab

Its Probably best to have at least two.

Hobby turners really only need one gouge jig if all of the gouge sizes they use fit into that one jig... it is easy enough to adjust the jig for different bevel angles.

If turning is part of your occupation then a separate gouge jig for each bevel angle/profile you use would be more efficient if doing a lot of gouge work.

As turning is more of a 'preoccupation' for me nowadays... which more than pays its own way... I buy or make whatever takes my interest without having to consult the treasurer. At last count I have five working gouge jigs and a few retired and 'antique' ones (like the Heli-Grind) that I have accumulated over the years... in retrospect, a bit over the top, but that is what it took to get from Peter Child's 1971 book, The Craftsman Woodturner, which was very elementary, to where I am now and to know what works well for me.

Note: The height of the surface on which the base slide sits is important as it relates closely to the dimensions of the leg on the jig. If making your own jig setup, the height of the pivot point above the base is another factor in the geometry, e.g. here is what is written in the Tru-Grind instructions...

Height from the bench to the centre of wheel should be 150- 160mm (6-6½”) for both 150mm (6”) and 200mm (8”)grinders. It may be necessary to place a packer under the mounting base of the grinder or under the Tru-Grind base-slide to get the height correct.