Thread: Hi to all, would a Durden Top turn 400 be a good keen beginner lathe

With a decent swing and solid cast iron beds etc these lathes are very decent machine.
Apart from a drill bit chuck it has a fair selection of extras.

A critical thing to look for is if the headstock and tailstock line up - to do this you need two dead centres , one in the tailstock and one in the headstock and make sure they kiss on teh tips of the points.
If they don't then correction could be a problems.

The motor/headstock bearings should make a constant humm. Any rattles etc may indicate bearings need replacing.

A minor irritation to me would be that it has only 4 speeds.
This could be upgraded later via a 3P motor and VFD.

If it was me I'd want to be getting if for less than the advertised price. ie <$1000

I have a TT 300 which is exactly the same just less swing over the bed.

To answer your question this is a great lathe to start with. My first lathe was a Chinese POS which I used for years and after updating to the TT I can say it is a massive improvement and I can’t really see the need to upgrade for a very long time.

They have some handy features including the indexing head, break lever, and safety switches to stop the machine when the belt cover is open and break pressed.

Providing it has been looked after I wouldn’t worry too much about the price. The new equivalent would be a Vicmarc and they are a hell of a lot more than $1200.

Thanks both for the response.

The money is less of an issue than the thought of rectification, or buying again in the short term. That being said if money was no issue I wouldn't be buying x years old second hand.

I will ask the seller for a video of the lathe running and moving the tailstock to the headstock to show everything is straight and true, being 3hrs away it's not a trip I want to make twice.

Not scared by an upgrade to 3P motor and VFD in the future would be more scared of buying something that needed replacement in the short term, or was just bad to start of with.

Purchased the lathe above and picked it up today. I am fortunate enough to not work Wednesday's

Jim had found a few more things.

It is still on the trailer in the shed, I will clear an appropriate space for it and try to move it once.

The bundled chisels look very good, I will need a grinder and a suitable sharpening system, open to cost effective solutions or discussions on why the horrendously expensive system is invaluable. But will probably start off printing this VeryGrind by marmotjr - Thingiverse and some other things here Things tagged with "Woodturning" - Thingiverse

Any stand outs for cheap slow bench grinder.

Facesheild

At which point I think I can start

Here's some of the stuff, Shared album - Garry Stone - Google Photos

Garry

Good on you Garry, I’m sure the lathe will serve you well.

On sharpening I bought a Sorby Pro Edge. After crudely using a bench grinder all I can say is it makes sharpening turning tools very easy and fast. The fact it can sharpen most other things satisfactorily including chisels and knives also makes it handy. I know this doesn’t translate to low cost but I would argue it is good value.

Im sure other more experienced turners will chime in with some lower cost suggestions.

Originally Posted by Gazob

Any stand outs for cheap slow bench grinder.

We don't need a slow grinder for HSS woodturning tools.

Any secondhand 8" grinder that runs true and with standard shaft size will do. At some later point you could add some better more expensive wheels (like CBN) if you think it is worth it.

Replacing any existing tool rest on the grinder is something you will need to do, IMO. And, I reckon, gouge jigs are invaluable for most of us.

If you happen to have a belt sander you could also adapt that to get you underway. Here is how Derek Cohen used a belt sander to sharpen chisels and plane blades. You could make and use your own gouge jig to use with either the bench grinder or belt sander.

There are many jig designs out there that you can experiment with. Search on this and other forums for DIY gouge jigs.

If the last time you turned was at school 40yrs ago then gouge grinds have evolved considerable since then. I suggest you watch this video from Doug Thompson on how to grind gouges. Doug know his stuff even if he isn't the most entertaining or clearest at explaining himself, like the incorrect diagram he draws at the 8min 30sec mark (viz, the bottom of the wing grind should go down to meet the heel).

To set your jig to recreate the grind from someone else's gouge see page 11 of the TruGrind instruction manual.

https://www.woodcut-tools.com/upload...t_trugrind.pdf

And, for the more experienced turners on the forum, see page 10 of the following for Jerry Glassers explanation of how to set up the grind for a bowl gouge.

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/d...t_trugrind.pdf

Gazabo, you've got yourself a good lathe there. Also tools to the value close to what you paid for the lathe if most of them are P&N, which are hard to come by now.

BTW, the very large P&N gouge shown in the eBay listing is a spindle roughing gouge and not a bowl gouge. You could get yourself into some strife if you were to use it on a bowl.

Originally Posted by jonsey850

Good on you Garry, I’m sure the lathe will serve you well.

On sharpening I bought a Sorby Pro Edge. After crudely using a bench grinder all I can say is it makes sharpening turning tools very easy and fast. The fact it can sharpen most other things satisfactorily including chisels and knives also makes it handy. I know this doesn’t translate to low cost but I would argue it is good value.

Im sure other more experienced turners will chime in with some lower cost suggestions.

I also have a Sorby Pro Edge and it's brilliant, but it's also in the order of $1000. Now that I have one I'm hooked and wouldn't want to go back to a grinder, but that purchase price is a big pill to swallow. In it's favour it's not just for lathe tools, reprofiling chisels and plane irons is a breeze now.

Thanks for all replies.

I currently have nothing for sharpening so will need to start from scratch.

Tormak and that Robert Sorby system look like a wise investment, I am not sure it's one I will make.

Grinders not much I can see second hand will keep looking, new from around the hundred dollar mark for cheapest and price goes to around $300 for a recognisable brand

Most of the chisels are P&N, marked Boralern on the shafts

Still trying to get my head around what I have and what I will need.

The multi star duplex Chuck looks like it will work well,may save an expensive purchase

If anyone out there has what they think I need gathering dust happy to discuss.

Garry

For a sharpening setup will a Torquata HeliGrind Turning Tool Sharpening Kit and any 200mm bench grinder be a good start. Anyone with experience of this jigging system care to comment of the ease of use for a total beginner. This looks to be a <$500 solution, a bit dependant on the grinder, and is locally available, unlike possibly the oneway system which I cant seem to find locally, but may or may not be worth the wait for a shipment from the US.

Garry

Originally Posted by Gazob

For a sharpening setup will a Torquata HeliGrind Turning Tool Sharpening Kit and any 200mm bench grinder be a good start. Anyone with experience of this jigging system care to comment of the ease of use for a total beginner. This looks to be a <$500 solution, a bit dependant on the grinder, and is locally available, unlike possibly the oneway system which I cant seem to find locally, but may or may not be worth the wait for a shipment from the US.

Garry

I used the HeliGrind when P&N first brought out their gouges. It was an interesting idea at the time, but had limited application (having restricted gouge sizes and profiles). I never liked the profiles it gave, so made various DIY bowl gouge grinding jigs that gave me a much better grind that was closer to the Ellsworth (or Irish) grind that I still use on many of my gouges.

It is a versatile grind. If you are not familiar with the Ellsworth grind here is a video with Nick Agar using it. Don't get caught up with his settings for getting that grind on the 'Torment', which some have said are a bit problematic.

Ellsworth Gouges - Form, use and sharpening - with Nick Agar - DICTUM tutorial video - YouTube

You don't need to buy any of the expensive jigs to get that grind. Here is a page of DIY jigs for getting the Ellsworth grind. I prefer the designs that have adjustable leg angles, but the fixed leg versions are easier to make. IME, the leg length is critical, as is the position of the fulcrum point. The real projection length is the distance from the tool tip to the fulcrum

Ellsworth jig plans - Google Search

I have used the Vicmarc jig, but found a number of issues with it. The Oneway Woverline Vari-Grind jig looks very similar to the Woodcut Tru-Grind jig. I have several of those Woodcut jigs and have settled on them.

I bought a heligrind and wasn't all that wild about it. It only really does one grind. I still have it if you want to buy one.

Originally Posted by NeilS

...the Ellsworth or Irish grind ... is a versatile grind.

Two things that it does well compared to other grinds is the pull cut and the shear scraping cut.

Mike Mahoney is a well known practitioner of both of those cuts as can be seen in the following video from the 6min mark with him doing the pull cut and at 19:45 to 20:00 where he can be seen doing the 'shear cut' *.

And, here is a video that is reasonably clear on how to get the Irish grind.

Sharpening a Swept Back Grind or Irish Grind on a Bowl Gouge - How To - YouTube

There are, of course, other bowl gouge grinds that we use, but the basic Irish grind is a good place for beginners to start with, IME.

* 'Shear cut' is my term. It is not a shear scraping cut, but a bevel rubbing cut. The handle is dropped right down and a slicing cut is done down the long wing of the Irish grind. I might do a separate thread on that some time.

Originally Posted by Biggus

I bought a heligrind and wasn't all that wild about it. It only really does one grind. I still have it if you want to buy one.

Thanks, but I'll say no, learning curve will be steep enough without learning something advice says not to.

And thanks Neil, will watch and read those and make my own jig, plenty of other things to spend money on.

Garry

Originally Posted by NeilS

... things that it does well ... is the shear scraping cut.

Nick Agar also shows that 'shear scraping cut', which he calls the 'Angel Hair Cut'... you can see him doing it at the 3min 50sec mark in his video on the Ellsworth gouge grind that I linked in my earlier post.

I also do a very fine finishing shear cut with the Ellsworth/Irish grind with the handle dropped right down in the same way as it is used in the shear scraping cut, but with the bevel rubbing along the wings. The shaving that come off that finishing shear cut are as fine or finer than that produced by shear scraping and it gives as good a finish on the outside of bowls as the 40/40 grind provided the areas of endgrain turning were cleanly done before that final finishing cut, which is very shallow.

I have previously posted here on this forum how the Ellsworth/Irish grind can also be used to do some basic hollowing.

Hollowing 101