Thread: Two ideas that worked.... surprise!

Geez Soundman, you make life hard. I watched a video the other night about using the skew correctly. I haven't been turning for very long and was doing it all wrong until seeing said video clip. Just when I thought I had it all worked out you go and move the bloody goal posts. Does this mean I have to go through all the nerve shattering learning curves again?

Cheers
Shorty

G'day Soundman

Re the "UNskew" : I think you'll find that the reason the Poms call a square-section tool with a double bevel a "Parting and Beading Tool" is that you use it vertically for parting, and horizontally for beading and general spindle work - just like the square chisel you are describing.

As for the upside-down scraper - I once asked a famous French turner why he used the bedan (which is a form of scraper) with the bevel uppermost, and he simply gave a Gallic shrug and said that when he asked his father if he could learn to turn, his parent had just handed him a bedan, walked away and left him to figure it out for himself. So he had always used it that way up.

Whatever floats your boat.

And a skew chisel sharpened square across already has a name... it's called a skew chisel! Seriously!

That's how they used to be sharpened, bevelled on either or both sides, until relatively recent times when someone realised that by angling the bevel you didn't have to hold the tool at such an awkward angle most of the time to get correct cutting presentation.

I guess they were called skew chisels 'cos you held them skewed to the toolrest. Ain't it amazing the crap you can learn when you read a lot of old books?

Hi Soundman,

Yep, Record used to produce a square dual bevel chisel. Still got one. My son liked it better for planing cuts than I did.

An alt for an awkward skew position is to have a second one with the angle running the other way.

Another option for scraper grinds which appears to be gaining popularity is to grind both the face and a bit off the top - negative rake I think they call it. Just tried it on a 3/8" thick square end scraper and found it pushed back too much with straight-sided hollowing.

I use the Bedan like a Skew or Beading tool & sometimes as a scraper.

Until I joined this forum I never realised that a skew chisel was meant to be used the way they are used.

As a patternmaker apprentice I was taught to use a skew as a scraper or as a parting off tool but never over the top of the spindle as a cutting tool.

Even now I only ever rough down with the gouge and finish of with the skew holding it as a scraper which gives a very smooth finish.

Actually all my scrapers have a small top bevel as this will prevent dig ins.

As a patternmaker we used to turn up to 1800mm diameter rings on cross arms fixed to 600 diam steel face plate and the last thing you want when doing this is a dig in.

Morning Soundman, and Skew.

I must admit to being very jittery regarding use of the Skew Chisel on the lathe, whether square nosed or, well, skewed. This has progressed to the stage that I just don't use the frightening thing much at all. When I have used it I applied it in much the same manner as Barry White has described above.

I am fully aware that this is because I have never learned to use the item correctly, and I obviously don't appreciate the applications and subtleties of the tool. I had intended to catch the Richard Raffan demo (Taming the Skew) when I visited the Sydney Wood Show recently to try to gain some measure of confidence, but missed it all together.

Are you aware of any articles or tutorials/videos which may enlighten an unlightened one?

My use and understanding of the scraper is not much better than the Skew at this stage, to the point that most of my serious dig-ins have been with the scraper. Again, obviously fully attributable to user ignorance. Having said that, I have sharpened the Scraper "upside down" as the resultant burr direction occurred to me as well, but am probably missing the importance of bevel and application to the work etc.

I'm quite keen to learn more about these implements of death here on the forum, rather than by the trial and error+error+error method.

Regards. Wayne

Hi Soundman
Skews frighten me at any time, regarding sharpening the scraper up side down I sharpen right side up and when it dulls turn the scraper over you have to adjust the angle some what but it works. its probably the same result as the negative rake scraper I seen in England a couple of years ago.

Cheers tony

Originally Posted by Hardenfast

Are you aware of any articles or tutorials/videos which may enlighten an unlightened one?

Alan Lacer is a major proponent of the skew chisel. He recommends ripping an 8-foot 2x4 (2m 90x45mm) in half and cutting each result into 8 pieces, then practice, practice, practice.

Google ["alan lacer" skew] for some videos; maybe some articles, too.

Joe

I think the toughest part of the skew is turning beads ... planing and trimming a cylinder end are pretty straightforward. For planing just watch that the edge cuts roughly the right angle (easy to vary this and see the results) and about a third the way up from the heel.

And for beads you can always use a spindle gouge (just can't get quite as obtuse a groove angle between adjacent beads) or a parting/beading tool.

Yep, Lacer's website has a demo from memory but it's hard to beat taking a lesson from someone who knows.

There realy is no difference in the presentation of the tool edge between the real skew and the UNskew, it just puts you and the handle in a different place.
I recon the UNskew would be useless for cutting beads and a lot of skew like activity, but for a couple of operations it is great.

No I don't think it is a beading and parting tool, thai is waht we call a prting tool here and the bevel is ground across the edge not along it.
The UNskew would be useless as a parting tool i recon.

there are a lot of people who don't like the skew and lots of instructors who don't teach it till well along the way.

there are those who recon everything should be done with the skew.
those who avoid the skew where ever posible

and the rest of us.

I wouldn't say I was an expert with the skew, but I manage.

Mike darlow's book has a realy good description on how the skew works.
Before anybody says ....You cant learn..XYZ from a book or a video...... yeh mate you mightent but others can.
Mikes description is very detailed but you have to take the time to read & understand.... the try it out & fugure out what you are doing wrong... the read again.

The skew certainly needs practice....... so do I.

one thing that occurs to me is that a lot of scrapers are sharpened far too pointy, most of my scrapers are ground just off square.... well a lot off square but thay most certainly arent the fine acute cutting angles I have seen on many new scrapers.
If you sharpen to a bluntish bevel the scraper will tend to chip limit and not dig as easily.
And you will be forced to use it below centre.

cheers

I learnt to use a skew from an article in Woodturning magazine (now watch some bugga ask which issue?) Prior to that it just sat in the rack daring me to try. I'm still not sure if I'm using it absolutely correctly but I manage a pretty good finish most of the time with it. Still managed 3 dig-ins on egg number 104 There are times when having the edge square across it might be handy but I doubt I'd bother to leave the lathe to get one when the occasion arose. Still manage every cut I do with the same 8 chisels.

Sharpening scrapers 'upside-down' makes sense but I never use mine. I use the Sorby teardrop for shear-scraping and I sharpen it square to the wheel from either side leaving burrs on both edges, all the way around - long time between resharpens that way.

Originally Posted by rsser

........An alt for an awkward skew position is to have a second one with the angle running the other way..........

Good one Ern! Can't believe nobody picked up on it - til now

Originally Posted by TTIT

Good one Ern! Can't believe nobody picked up on it - til now

I actually do have LH and a RH skews. They're only single bevelled though, which I prefer as it changes the angle the handle's held at.

My only double bevelled skew is oval profile and has a curved cutting edge; not because I'm trying to keep up with the latest fad but because with the oval profile that's always how it seems to sharpen...


A good trick for those learning to use a skew, which I picked up from , is to use a black texta and mark from the middle of the cutting edge down to about 4-5mm from the heel. (the not-pointy bit) When you're cutting, only use the marked part of the edge.

Using the longer unmarked section towards the toe (the pointy bit) leaves the tool with insufficient supported by the toolrest and is the main cause of bad dig-ins. It's "the danger zone." Using the 5mm near the heel tends to result in torn fibres as you're only making half a cut, trenching with the edge of the tool...

Yep Vern.

Someone recently posted a link to a digital book scan of an old US turning manual. When I looked at LH and RH skews in it I thought what you did.

But it messed with my mind so I went out to the shed and laid it out in front of me. I rarely plane with the skew but could imagine if you were eg. planing up to a plinth and you were supposed to use the bottom third from the heel how a mirror-image skew could be best.

... I'm not a tech person at all. I've taken two lessons on beading with a skew and got some kind of result but without practice it's gone. That kind of irritates me. At the turnfest was kind enough to demo it and I think I'm now ready to try again