Thread: Ignorant newbie

I wrote quite a ling reply early in this discussion, but it went off into the ether somewhere, so nobody saw it!
I have to agree about the reeve drive lathes. While they are a good starter lathe and many of us started with them, they are a pain in the butt to maintain, and those who stay turning almost always upgrade to something better.
The other thing I am a bit wary of is the movable headstock on some lathes. Sure it adds a lot of versatility, but it also adds points of weakness and opportunities for unwanted movement. My second lathe had a sliding and rotating headstock, and there was always a bit of slop in the mechanism. That meant that I had to be very careful to re-align the headstock to tailstock every time that I moved the head. Thinking back, I think that 90% of the times that I moved the headstock was to show other people what the lathe could do. I only ever used it once for an actual turning job. Rotation is a very useful feature only if you are likely to do very large turning projects - which most of us don't do! Sliding is a bit more useful, but still not a necessary feature.
Of course, if your interest is in big things, then go for it, but get yourself into the routine of calibrating the alignment before each spindle project. It is not that hard to do.
Bruce

Originally Posted by bruceward51

Rotation is a very useful feature only if you are likely to do very large turning projects - which most of us don't do! Sliding is a bit more useful, but still not a necessary feature.

Bruce

I have a different opinion about rotating and sliding headstocks.

Yes, outboard turning does allow for larger pieces than can fit over the bed, however, that has nothing to do with my preference for turning outboard. Standing in front of what I'm turning is a far more comfortable working position (for me) when turning bowls and hollow forms, which is 98% of what I do.

I've been turning like that outboard for the last 55 years. All of my lathes have had that feature and as a bowl turner that is where I prefer to turn, as does my back.

I began outboard turning on the back of the headstock until the sliders and rotators came in. I went with a rotator myself as I have always turned on Woodfasts and was happy to stay with them. I've nothing against the sliders other than they take up more floor space, which can be a limiting factor in some workshops.

If I'm ever doing a little bit of inboard spindle turning I do nothing more that check to see that the centres are kissing before locking the headstock down. I've not experienced any slop with my Woodfast rotating headstock. Likewise, any of the Vicmarc rotating headstock models that I've used have also been rock solid.

I found an added advantage with a rotating headstock when rough turning large out of balance blanks outboard. The heavy bed running perpendicular to the headstock provides a counterweight that provides more stability with that orientation. But, not everyone is going to want to have that benefit...

IMG_7861.JPG

So it sounds like Reeves drive stuff isn't ideal, but fairly common for beginners level stuff (and budgets). EVS is much better, but more expensive. For a decent size, it sounds like that HAFCO one for $2700 ish is about the cheapest with EVS that I've seen. There are cheaper, but much smaller, so it sounds like trying to find the right point between price/size. To get back to my theoretical budget, for a decent size, it pretty much sounds like going with a Reeves. Or are there smaller EVS machines which allow outboard turning?

Originally Posted by Rombles

So it sounds like Reeves drive stuff isn't ideal, but fairly common for beginners level stuff (and budgets). EVS is much better, but more expensive. For a decent size, it sounds like that HAFCO one for $2700 ish is about the cheapest with EVS that I've seen. There are cheaper, but much smaller, so it sounds like trying to find the right point between price/size. To get back to my theoretical budget, for a decent size, it pretty much sounds like going with a Reeves. Or are there smaller EVS machines which allow outboard turning?

As far as I know, none of the mini/midi sized lathes available to us here in Australia allow for an outboard turning option.

I get what you are saying Neil, but I am not convinced it is an important feature for a new turner. I think if I mainly turned bowls I might agree with you, but there are many branches of turning where it is of less value, and as I was saying, a potential (but agreeably minor) disadvantage.
On reflection, I am probably influenced by my own situation, where I have a miniscule workshop space and would not have room to use a rotating or siding headstock - even if I wanted to. But I had one in by previous, much larger, workshop and did not use it.
As it is, I do quite a bit of spindle reproduction projects at my Men's Shed. People wanting to repair chairs, ballisters, house finials and the like. I have the luxury there of a Vicmarc VM200 long bed.
At home (where the tiny workshop is) I do small bowls, ornamental projects and chess pieces. I lashed out on a Vicmarc VM150 short bed here too.
As a newbie, Rombles does not yet know what sort of turning he might find interesting - or whether he will even get bitten by the bug.
Which reminds me of an important feature for a new lathe for a new turner that nobody has mentioned - potential resale value! The better the brand, the easier to resell later. A good resale value greatly reduces the cost of the experiment if it does not work out!

Originally Posted by NeilS

There is likely to be more woodturning being done up on the nearby Atherton tablelands than down your way, Rombles. Perhaps visit Milanda Men's Shed as a staring point.

I see you also have a wood guild in Cairns. They could tell you where you could get to learn and do some turning so you can know what you need before you buy your own lathe.

Cairns Woodworkers Guild – Woodworking within the community

Have a look at the Laguna Revo 12/16 from Carbatec. It has optional outboard turning fittings.

Originally Posted by bruceward51

I get what you are saying Neil, but I am not convinced it is an important feature for a new turner. I think if I mainly turned bowls I might agree with you, but there are many branches of turning where it is of less value, and as I was saying, a potential (but agreeably minor) disadvantage.
On reflection, I am probably influenced by my own situation, where I have a miniscule workshop space and would not have room to use a rotating or siding headstock - even if I wanted to. But I had one in by previous, much larger, workshop and did not use it.
As it is, I do quite a bit of spindle reproduction projects at my Men's Shed. People wanting to repair chairs, ballisters, house finials and the like. I have the luxury there of a Vicmarc VM200 long bed.
At home (where the tiny workshop is) I do small bowls, ornamental projects and chess pieces. I lashed out on a Vicmarc VM150 short bed here too.
As a newbie, Rombles does not yet know what sort of turning he might find interesting - or whether he will even get bitten by the bug.
Which reminds me of an important feature for a new lathe for a new turner that nobody has mentioned - potential resale value! The better the brand, the easier to resell later. A good resale value greatly reduces the cost of the experiment if it does not work out!

For me the outboard turning set up is far from popular. In order to get a half decent set up you need to buy a decent brand of lathe. I actually built my own lathe and gave it a 28" total swing to get around the issue and the need of an outboard set up

The first lathe I bought was a Technatool TL 1000 , it facilitates an outboard function which i like it also has a capability to turn at a lower speed rather than the Jet Lathe I have as well.I have used the outboard on the few occasions where I have turned bowls ,but this lathe is not a heavy built lathe so I am mindful of this restricting my size/weight turning even though I have the lathe on a steel built bench.
There are some good thoughts by the above posters on perhaps the OP availing Him/herself of a woodturning club or menshed to help in formulating where woodturning interests may lie.This is what I did back in the late 80's by joining a Woodturners club & participating in garnering all the safe & meaningful knowledge needed to fulfil my desire in woodturning.

My budget will be what it will be, so while there are some fantastic lathes out there, I pretty much won't be able to afford them. In my original post here I linked to something I'd never heard of, wondering how it would compare with the (more affordable and available) brands that I knew of, being Carbatec and Hafco. Taking the unknown brand out the mix, how do those two brands compare with each other?

FWIW, I'm keen to work towards larger stuff with what I have in mind, so Mini = no, Midi = maybe if it has some versatility, Maxi (well, big, at least) = yes but no $$$. Does that make sense?

I really appreciate the input from the gurus here

Originally Posted by Rombles

My budget will be what it will be, so while there are some fantastic lathes out there, I pretty much won't be able to afford them. In my original post here I linked to something I'd never heard of, wondering how it would compare with the (more affordable and available) brands that I knew of, being Carbatec and Hafco. Taking the unknown brand out the mix, how do those two brands compare with each other?

FWIW, I'm keen to work towards larger stuff with what I have in mind, so Mini = no, Midi = maybe if it has some versatility, Maxi (well, big, at least) = yes but no $$$. Does that make sense?

I really appreciate the input from the gurus here

Hafco sell a fair range of makes, perhaps more so than Carbatec, so the comparison would be a bit lopsided. Both sell lathes neither of them making any. OK hafco have their own brand that's made in China and probably Carbatec do too. The budget will determine it in the end. But in the meantime, what to look for? Well heavy is good the heavier, the better so it wont move around. So that means everything about it must be substantial, no flexible legs or stands ideally cast legs. Plenty of power, minimum 1hp and if possible a VFD set up. The electronic speed control should be able to go down to around 100rpm some stop at 500 which is not much chop for big out of balance blanks. Also at the lower speed you want to maintain the torque , how it will affect the budget? Quite sizeably. Some use stepped pulleys to do so, they will be cheaper . Controls, some sort of safety switch that's centrally positioned for easy access in the event of a mishap. Size you will have to have a clear idea of how much throw you can get for your money. The bigger the throw the bigger the price, I dont think theres an ideal throw, its all about what you want to turn and what you can afford. Basically everyone tends to buy as much as they can afford but rarely it is what they want ultimately. So you may have to resign yourself to the idea that what ever you buy, it wont be the last lathe you buy.

Sounds like you want a ‘good’ and ‘cheap’ lathe. At your budget I suggest that rules out a new lathe! As Hughie said a good lathe is heavy, robust and has an effective way of changing speed. It has enough power and swing (throw) for the sort of work you want to do. If you want to talk brands, Hafco and Carbatec are store brands - there are other similar imported products but the lathe you originally linked to was equivalent to the cheap end of the generic line. In my opinion these are ok for the odd small job and ideal for dreamers who never do anything, but anyone who really wanted to turn would quickly outgrow it and upgrade to something better - particularly more power, more robust stand and better drive system.
if you want to talk brands, the known brands are things like Sherwood, Technatool (Nova), Jet, Laguna, Woodfast and Vicmarc. Those are arranged roughly by price and quality (I am sure to have missed some). The last two are Aussie brands I think. The way to check is to search for the manufacturer’s website - all the good ones will have a website of their own.
I know your location is problematic but a good second hand machine is way better than a cheap generic machine any day.
Bruce

Further to Bruce comments, if the deal for a second hand lathe is very good and a bit far off I would suggest considering it. As it could easily be one with many accessories and whatever you pay for your lathe the accessories will over time dwarf the cost of the lathe, that sir is a given.
I started wood turning in my preteens in my Dads workshop. Work and travel took me away from it for 20+ years so when I got back into it I wasnt sure about how serious I was. So I bought a cheap Hafco lathe MC1100, all cast iron good design but woeful machining and finishing, during this time I defined which way I wanted to go and like you I started out with the bigger the better turnings. But It has its drawbacks, firstly I needed to source big blanks and be able to store them.The issues of getting them onto the lathe never really arose as I had the strength to do so at the time Big turnings gobbled up my wood pile at an alarming rate, so I sort of lived a hunter-gatherer life when it came to wood. The other aspect was big turnings aren't everyones cup of tea, so I began to gather a stockpile of them and of course ran into SWMBO and the question of what are you going to do with all these big bowls? "Dunno" was about all I had to offer. That worked didnt it?
Today I have a lathe that can swing over 600mm and have never used this capacity usually turn around 3-400 dia and similar in length. The wood pile last longer and a lot of folks can handle this size and this helps me as I am not one for collecting a lot of wood turnings.
I guess the point I am making is the way we start out isnt always the way we end up going.

Originally Posted by bruceward51

Sounds like you want a ‘good’ and ‘cheap’ lathe. At your budget I suggest that rules out a new lathe! As Hughie said a good lathe is heavy, robust and has an effective way of changing speed. It has enough power and swing (throw) for the sort of work you want to do. If you want to talk brands, Hafco and Carbatec are store brands - there are other similar imported products but the lathe you originally linked to was equivalent to the cheap end of the generic line. In my opinion these are ok for the odd small job and ideal for dreamers who never do anything, but anyone who really wanted to turn would quickly outgrow it and upgrade to something better - particularly more power, more robust stand and better drive system.
if you want to talk brands, the known brands are things like Sherwood, Technatool (Nova), Jet, Laguna, Woodfast and Vicmarc. Those are arranged roughly by price and quality (I am sure to have missed some). The last two are Aussie brands I think. The way to check is to search for the manufacturer’s website - all the good ones will have a website of their own.
I know your location is problematic but a good second hand machine is way better than a cheap generic machine any day.
Bruce

Doesn't everyone want good and cheap? Looking at those better brands, I see there are a few (slightly) smaller ones within my budget range which have EVS. Are all EVS as good as any of the others? Assuming that all of those are better made, stronger, more stable etc etc etc than the generic ones... is there a consensus on what is the "best" lathe under $1000? Ditto under $1500?

I note that Woodfast have the 1220A and the 1216B which seem fairly similarly sized, specced, and priced. Does anyone know the significance of the A and the B?

There is a thread on here - Larger lathes currently available here in Australia - for larger lathes available here.... is there anything similar for smaller/cheaper?