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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    St Clair, Sydney
    Posts
    47

    Default Lathe power troubles

    Hi guys! I've finally made time to clean up a variable speed Woodfast lathe I've had sitting for months and am having trouble getting it started.

    When I turn the lathe on, the motor fan and spindle seem to be spinning but the lathe spindle and belt does not turn. On the very slowest variable speed I am able to hand spin to start but cranking up the speed makes the lathe stop turning.

    Turning power on makes a loud 'bzzzzzzzzzz' sound coming from the white box.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks!
    20180922_123006.jpg20180922_123047.jpg
    20180922_123017.jpg
    20180922_123025.jpg

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,756

    Default

    Sounds like a capacitor problem.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,166

    Default

    you need a white paint / liquid paper drop on the motor drive pulley so you can be sure the motor is running. But yeah, capacitor is likely your first problem.
    (I had a guy at Taren Point repair a motor for my coffee roaster a few weeks ago - should be able to find someone out west closer to you to do the same)

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,327

    Default

    Forrester,

    If your motor starts and runs by itself I think your starting capacitor is OK. If it hums but does not start, but runs when you give the belt a pull, it needs a start capacitor. Do not let it hum without starting for more than a few seconds or the Magic Smoke will come out. Some motors have both a start and run capacitor, but those usually have two bumps on the top of the motor.

    I think you have two separate things happening. Remove the cover from the white box and blow out or brush any sawdust and chips you see. If the switch contacts are visible, see if there is dirt, or burned places on them. If not clean and shiny, fold a piece of 400 grit sandpaper and run between the contacts until they are clean and shiny.

    That may be a mechanical switch or a magnetic switch. If magnetic, when the on button is pressed it causes a coil to pull in a set of contacts that let electricity flow to the motor. It also supplies electricity to the coil to keep it pulling the motor contacts together. If the power should go off in the shed the motor contacts open and will not start the motor when the power comes on without pushing the on button. If there is dirt keeping the coil from firmly pulling in the contacts they could chatter, that may be the buzzing you hear. After you have done what you can, put the cover back on.

    Your variable speed drive is what is called a Reeves Drive. When working well they are wonderful. If not maintained they will drive one to bitter cursing and weeping.

    They work by mechanically moving the two halves of one pulley together and apart. In your case the top one. The other pulley is spring loaded to move together and apart to follow the tension of the belt connecting the two.

    Your description sounds as though the motor pulley is not closing up on the belt when the top pulley is moved apart, which loosens the belt and you have no drive.

    The belt adjustment could also be too loose. You might start with tightening the belt to see if you get it to work on the higher speeds. If that does not work and / or you want to give the drive a tune up, do the following.

    Unplug the lathe and hang the cord over the lathe with the plug in sight. Loosen the belt adjustment and remove the belt, inspect and if the running surface is shiny, glazed, sand both sides with 100ish grit until there is no shine. With the belt off it does not hurt the adjusting mechanism to be operated without the motor running. Run the upper pulley adjustment all the way back and forth several times, pay attention to any catching or stiffness. When the pulley halves are farthest apart, turn the spindle with a faceplate or chuck and with the 100ish grit sandpaper clean the running surfaces of the pulley. Clean the shaft between the pulley halves and put a light coat of grease - white grease, petroleum jelly, etc. - on it. Adjust the pulley halves together and clean and grease the exposed sliding part. Clean, oil or grease any of the adjusting mechanism you can get to. Adjust the pulley all the way open and closed about 10 times and wipe off any grease that wants to get on the inside of the pulley.

    Check the inner sides of the motor pulley. If not clean sand with 100ish grit until clean. If you feel comfortable doing so wrap and tape the sandpaper to a narrow stick, a paint stirring stick is about right, turn the motor on momentarily and watch which way the pulley is turning. Start the motor and sand both sides of the pulley with the rotation of the pulley pulling the stick away from you. Shut down and unplug with plug in your sight.

    Stick a piece of wood between the sides of the motor pulley and GENTLY pry them apart. The sides may be aluminum or pot metal and could break. If proven steel or cast iron we do not have to be so gentle. Do they move without catching? Clean and grease the outside shaft, pry apart and clean and grease between the pulleys. Pry apart as much as you can and let come back 10ish times, turning the pulley 1/2 turn each time. Clean off any grease that has come on the inside of the pulley.

    Wind the top pulley sides together, put the belt on and tighten belt tension, giving the belt some rotation each tweak until you see the bottom pulley just begin to spread.

    Plug in and start the lathe, run the adjustment all the way back and forth a few times. If it works the full range you are good for several years.

    If not, check back here for more advice.
    So much timber, so little time.

    Paul

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,166

    Default

    but, don't open ANYTHING with the power connected. And don't open the switches unless you're an electrician or appropriately trained - in which case the previous warning was unnecessary....

    This should be the first thing you do:
    >> Unplug the lathe and hang the cord over the lathe with the plug in sight.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Glen Forrest, Western Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    531

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrester View Post

    Turning power on makes a loud 'bzzzzzzzzzz' sound coming from the white box.
    This statement makes me say "Get an Electrician to have a look"

    Rick

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Oberon, NSW
    Age
    63
    Posts
    13,354

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrester View Post
    When I turn the lathe on, the motor fan and spindle seem to be spinning but the lathe spindle and belt does not turn. On the very slowest variable speed I am able to hand spin to start but cranking up the speed makes the lathe stop turning.
    Just what do you mean by this? If the motor shaft is turning, so should the drive pulley... are you saying that the shaft is spinning inside the pulley? A broken key or loose grub-screw would be the first thing to look for if that's the case.

    Or do you mean that the motor pulley spinning, but the belt is slipping?

    Turning power on makes a loud 'bzzzzzzzzzz' sound coming from the white box.
    This would be my main concern. Personally, I'd unplug the lathe and keep it unplugged until this was resolved. (If I couldn't fix it ASAP I'd also physically remove the plug and/or lead so no-one else could try using it in my absence!)

    Cleaning the switch-box may resolve the issue, as may cleaning the contacts. If you have any doubt about your abilities to service this though, call someone who does know what they're doing.
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

    - Andy Mc

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Katoomba NSW
    Posts
    4,770

    Default

    The white box is just a Direct Online starter. The buzz sounds like the contactor may need attention or replacing. I can have a look at it for you if you would like.
    Send me a PM.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    St Clair, Sydney
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Thank you everyone for such a vast amount of information in just a day!

    Reading all of this makes me think it's a weekend job to have a proper look - this long weekend is now very convenient!

    Initially this seems like a few issues. Firstly the belt is loose and becomes more loose with the speed turned up it seems. Secondly, the buzz from the direct online starter seems I should open and clean up the contacts. I'm glad everyone does exactly as I've been told which is to hang the cord unplugged and in sight.

    I'll have a general clean and keep you all posted!

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    St Clair, Sydney
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Hi everyone again!

    I just did a clean up of the lathe - I DON'T think there are any electrical problems. Unless a small hum sound is abnormal?

    Regarding the belt. I took them off, gave the pulleys a clean etc. Gave the mechanism a bit of a clean, ran it up and down etc etc. The mechanism is running fine, not 100% smooth but not something that would stop it working.

    When I put the belts back on, they are both super slack, but I didn't change the motor mounting height etc (it already seems to be on the lowest mount position?). Am I tripping out here, how do I achieve tighter belts or are these simply too long? I noticed in cleaning that they were indeed too slack and most likely the culprit, but now they are ridiculously slack.

    Both belts by the way are different lengths.

    I've attached some images of my progress.

    Thank you to all!

    thumbnail_20180930_144204.jpg

    thumbnail_20180930_132118.jpg

    20180930_132130.jpg

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sydney Upper North Shore
    Posts
    4,464

    Default

    I know nothing about these lathes or Reeves drives but that belt looks like a toothed belt with a thin profile/ thickness with no V shape which I don’t think suits the pulleys - from the one I can see on the motor. Maybe it’s just the photo/angle.
    Can you get a better pic. of the belt itself?

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,327

    Default

    Forrester,

    What you have is something I have not encountered. I am used to two pulley Reeves drive for which I gave instructions in my post #4.
    Here is how a two pulley system works: https://youtu.be/M8ExzaUq5GI

    Here is a Rockwell three pulley system, which may or may not be the same as the Woodfast: https://youtu.be/sE77YHDEZaQ

    From what I can see, you have a three pulley system with the middle pulley changing ratio in relation to motor to middle and middle to spindle at the same time by moving the center section of the middle pulley side to side.

    Here is a Rockwell three pulley system, which may or may not be the same as the Woodfast: https://youtu.be/sE77YHDEZaQ

    As you have removed the belts, and I am assuming you have not removed the pulleys, I would remove and replace the belts opposite to what you have. There appears to be a coil spring on the middle pulley, so you may have to put a belt on middle to top first which may be loose then belt on the middle to motor pulley pulling against the spring to put on the motor pulley. I can't tell if the motor pulley is a Reeves or fixed.

    It is quite possible that your belt or belts are worn enough to be past the limit of adjustment. That may be why the lathe was sold. The belts seem to be the correct ones. http://www.master-pt.com/images/pdf/PULLEY_MPT.pdf

    Also see: http://www.alltorquetransmissions.com/tag/reeves/

    https://www.google.com/search?client...utf-8&oe=utf-8

    The above is about as much as I can do for you from here. When you get it working I think you will be most pleased. My 20 odd year old Woodfast below, bought with everything rusted together and stuck. A weekend to get everything apart, then much cleaning and polishing. Wonderful lathe, 20 inch swing, short bed bowl lathe.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    So much timber, so little time.

    Paul

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    St Clair, Sydney
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lappa View Post
    I know nothing about these lathes or Reeves drives but that belt looks like a toothed belt with a thin profile/ thickness with no V shape which I don’t think suits the pulleys - from the one I can see on the motor. Maybe it’s just the photo/angle.
    Can you get a better pic. of the belt itself?
    Hey Lappa, I believe the belts are what is needed for this one, see the better photo below! Thank you for your reply!

    20181001_095548.jpg

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    St Clair, Sydney
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul39 View Post
    Forrester,

    What you have is something I have not encountered. I am used to two pulley Reeves drive for which I gave instructions in my post #4.
    Here is how a two pulley system works: https://youtu.be/M8ExzaUq5GI

    Here is a Rockwell three pulley system, which may or may not be the same as the Woodfast: https://youtu.be/sE77YHDEZaQ

    From what I can see, you have a three pulley system with the middle pulley changing ratio in relation to motor to middle and middle to spindle at the same time by moving the center section of the middle pulley side to side.

    Here is a Rockwell three pulley system, which may or may not be the same as the Woodfast: https://youtu.be/sE77YHDEZaQ

    As you have removed the belts, and I am assuming you have not removed the pulleys, I would remove and replace the belts opposite to what you have. There appears to be a coil spring on the middle pulley, so you may have to put a belt on middle to top first which may be loose then belt on the middle to motor pulley pulling against the spring to put on the motor pulley. I can't tell if the motor pulley is a Reeves or fixed.

    It is quite possible that your belt or belts are worn enough to be past the limit of adjustment. That may be why the lathe was sold. The belts seem to be the correct ones. http://www.master-pt.com/images/pdf/PULLEY_MPT.pdf

    Also see: All Torque Transmissions reeves Archives - All Torque Transmissions

    https://www.google.com/search?client...utf-8&oe=utf-8

    The above is about as much as I can do for you from here. When you get it working I think you will be most pleased. My 20 odd year old Woodfast below, bought with everything rusted together and stuck. A weekend to get everything apart, then much cleaning and polishing. Wonderful lathe, 20 inch swing, short bed bowl lathe.

    Thank you once again for a wonderfully thought out reply full of knowledge! It still amazes me how much information and help can be gathered on this forum!

    It is indeed a 3 spindle Reeves. The middle spindle raises and lowers while the motor and shaft spindle remain fixed.

    This morning I did what you suggested and swapped the belts around. Go figure, the lathe is spinning! Now, I feel a little silly BUT when I bought this lathe, the belt configuration was exactly how I originally had it ie in the not working configuration. The guy I bought it from was moving house and couldn't take it, but he said it was working just the week beforehand. Now, I may have been duped but it's still a nice lathe and came with lots of extras.

    I will follow this reply up with another post with videos etc!

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    St Clair, Sydney
    Posts
    47

    Default

    So after looking over this lathe all yesterday and this morning, it seems to be running (not perfectly though). Next up will probably be to clean everything properly and do whatever others suggest here ie replace bearings or grease etc. What do we suggest as a safe product for cleaning up the spindles, bearings, greasing etc? Right now they've simply been wiped with elbow grease and a cloth. I'll have to buy some products, at the moment at home I only have CMT 2050 and Wd40, plus some 80W-90 gear oil.

    Without explaining too much, see this video of how it is now running. In the lower range it seems to be making some sounds in the spindle/belt area until it gets up to speed. It also gets harder to turn in the lower speeds.



    Lastly, what is this bolt in operable section? When I loosen it, it lets me wiggle the mechanism VERY slightly up and down maybe 5mm, when tightened it holds the mechanism sturdy.

    20181001_095610.jpg

    And a couple more images:

    20181001_101701_HDR.jpg20181001_102655_HDR.jpg

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