Lathe over in For Sale forum

[NeilS]

This is an interesting lathe on offer listed over in the For Sale forum

Vintage Woodfast / Hyco lathe

Depending on its condition (TAFE lathes are usually OK when they leave there), the addition of a 3ph motor and VFD control would turn it into a nice small lathe for a very reasonable cost.

One consideration is the 1" x 10tpi spindle thread and 3/4" banjo post, which are a bit non-standard nowadays. If I was taking it on, I would add a thread adaptor to make it more compatible for available chucks and drill out the banjo to take a more readily available tool post size.

A restoration would make it a very nice lathe for another 50yrs....

Good project for someone?


PS - I have no affiliation with the seller.

[delbs]

Thanks for this info, Ive put an offer on this one just waiting for the OP to post it. My intent is to find a suitable motor and VFD unit. I've found some kits that come pre wired but are expensive. So I'm still looking around but once I pick it up I'll make a stand for it

I don't have any experience electrically so I'll need to buy the appropriate 3phase motor and VFD and get a local sparky to help me wire it up and I'll do the rest.

Thought it looked like an interesting project and I've owned woodfast previously so this was a good project to get me back into some all bowls and pens again with another woodfast

Cheers
Delbs

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[NeilS]

I don't have any experience electrically so I'll need to buy the appropriate 3phase motor and VFD and get a local sparky to help me wire it up and I'll do the rest.

There are some forum members that have expertise on the forum with VFDs. I think that buying the right components will be key to a successful conversion project. BobL and Chris Parks are two forum members that come immediately to mind.

I also think that finding a sparky that knows enough about this area will be a challenge. Industrial maintenance electricians might be a good starting point. Otherwise, an electronic technician might be a better option. An engineering lab technicians at one of the unis in Canberra is another thought.

There have been threads on the forum on how to do a VFD conversion. Most of them are over in the Electronics Forum.

Here are a few. Definitely start with the first.

VFDs for Newbies

Also, have a look at BobL's video, which covers the basic issues. The first 30mins does that. Starting at 1:06:29 Bob talks about the manuals and programming VFDs.

VFD Video presentation

Details on his various VFD installs are covered in....

VFD install summaries

The following thread is immediately relevant to your project if it goes ahead...

New a New VFD for my Woodfast Lathe

All the best with your project.

[delbs]

Ive been going through the links youve provided thanks a lot for posting these. @bobL video is very informative with my morning coffee

Wondering if anyone can tell me, if three-phase power is available in the shed the lathe resides in is a VFD necessary? im comparing the up and running costs of purchasing a VFD unit and having a sparky with hopefully the niche skills to connect and program it with the appropriate motor.

Or having a 415V circuit run to my shed as 3-phase power is already connected to my house just no spare outlets to use is.

Are there 3-phase motors that come with some form of speed controller when no conversion from single phase to three phase conversion takes place?

Is that what other manufacturers use (say a new woodfast or vicmarc) use on their new units a micro VFD/VSD of some form? there's significant footprint size difference between DIY VFD units vs controllers on new lathes

Ive had another house i lived in connected to three-phase and the highest expense that i was possibly to incur was from the energy provider providing fuses in the street and the cables being run to my house, since both of those hurdles were cleared i just paid the sparky for his time to install the 415v power plug and few other bits and bobs. Im wondering if this is the cheaper way for me to go instead of a VFD + motor cost?

EDIT: Seems by reading through more forum posts that even if 3-phase is available a VFD is the best choice for fine control of speed for the motor.

[NeilS]

EDIT: Seems by reading through more forum posts that even if 3-phase is available a VFD is the best choice for fine control of speed for the motor.

That's my understanding.

Those with more expertise might comment.

[BobL]

Ive been going through the links youve provided thanks a lot for posting these. @bobL video is very informative with my morning coffee
Wondering if anyone can tell me, if three-phase power is available in the shed the lathe resides in is a VFD necessary?

In this case VFD is not necessary.

im comparing the up and running costs of purchasing a VFD unit and having a sparky with hopefully the niche skills to connect and program it with the appropriate motor.

Or having a 415V circuit run to my shed as 3-phase power is already connected to my house just no spare outlets to use is.[/QUOTE]
The cost of running a 3P line to shed + 3P power pint etc may be more than the cost of a VFD and a sparky. You want know till you get quotes.
As they are not all teh same and they have to guarantee any installation sparkies may not want install a cheap eBay VFD and may only install a VFD brand they are familiar with. This can add t the cost.,

Are there 3-phase motors that come with some form of speed controller when no conversion from single phase to three phase conversion takes place?

No, to run a 3P motor on SP always requires some form of phase conversion. There are 3P motors with built in speed control that plug straight into SP (One of my cousins makes them in Italy) but they are not for sale in Oz. Hare and Free uses to sell them nut I have not seen them for sale on their website for some time. Theres nthing fancy about these motors they use a cut down VFD embedded in the motor connection box to convert SP the 3P,

Is that what other manufacturers use (say a new woodfast or vicmarc) use on their new units a micro VFD/VSD of some form? there's significant footprint size difference between DIY VFD units vs controllers on new lathes

There are many small stand alone VFDs available eg ~3 x 4 x 5"

Ive had another house i lived in connected to three-phase and the highest expense that i was possibly to incur was from the energy provider providing fuses in the street and the cables being run to my house, since both of those hurdles were cleared i just paid the sparky for his time to install the 415v power plug and few other bits and bobs. Im wondering if this is the cheaper way for me to go instead of a VFD + motor cost?

Until you get quotes you will nt know

EDIT: Seems by reading through more forum posts that even if 3-phase is available a VFD is the best choice for fine control of speed for the motor.

Yep

There other ways t get speed control n machines like using a DC motor and controller from a running machine but these are expensive to buy new and chances are that sparkies that know how t install these will be even harder to find.

[delbs]

Great. So now onto which combination of motor and step pulley to fit the shaft and a VFD unit.

From what ive read around these seem appropriate

Motor
- 1.5kw 2HP 1400rpm 3/4" 19mm shaft Compressor motor single phase 240v dual caps

Step pulley 19mm shaft for lathe motor
STEP PULLEY 5 LAYERS shaft 19mm lathe use | eBay

VFD

1.5kw/2HP 240V Single Phase Variable Frequency Compact Drive Inverter VSD VFD

I am considering the cononmotor brand just due to them being Australian and thought after market support or returns could be more convenient.

Keen to hear if anyone had any thoughts on that combination of motor and VFD unit or if i should be considering something else.

Will need to look into making my own handle for the banjo or a replacement banjo and the thread spindle adapter
Would this adapter be the one im after? 1x10-M30x3.5 14-788?

CWS Store - Lathe Spindle Adaptors

Cheers,
Delbs

[Chris Parks]

Three phase is always useful in a workshop if you intend to add used machinery from commercial sales or auctions so if you think that may be the case getting it run to the shed is never a bad thing. I use a VFD on my three phase dust extractor for speed management purposes and any DE installation I am involved in with a three phase power supply gets one. If you intend to add a cyclone or large DE in the future it might be a good idea to run the three phase now as it will give you better options for the future because if adding more equipment you may have to add more single phase circuits and increase the SP supply capacity anyway. Techno lathes and drill presses use a DC motor and control I think because they get a better low speed result but I have no experience with that only to say that modern vector drive VFD's are pretty damned good these days. I know NCArcher had plans to put a 240V VFD on a lathe and he certainly has many years commercial/industrial on hand experience to comment further on this aspect and a PM to him would get first hand information or he may comment if he sees this thread.

[delbs]

Gday Chris,

thanks for that, i do have 3 phase to my house and connected but not to my shed. i dont really intend on having many machines at least for a while. At this stage just the lathe, drill press and bench grinder. the rest im pretty well setup for hand tools at the moment.

Looking for the easiest or cheapest path forward for specifically the VFD and lathe, ive reached out to a local sparky so will see what he comes back with.

@NCarcher ill try reach out to discuss my options.

A common scenario seems to be obtaining a second hand 3 phase motor and attaching a VFD to use somewhere in a shed. just want to make sure im selecting the right components with both a new motor which is single phase (a 3 phase motor similar spec is pretty much same price) and a single phase VFD unit purely for variable speed. Also due to the motor being new im finding its easy to get a 5 step pulley with the right arbor dimensions also so that saves me some retrofitting that others seem to have to do

[delbs]

Some interesting motors come up on gumtree occasionally

550w 240V consew motor for lathe, mill, sewing machine etc,
550w 240V consew motor for lathe, mill, sewing machine etc | Power Tools | Gumtree Australia Sutherland Area - Caringbah | 1265464435

Price: $125 Negotiable

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[woodPixel]

Delbs, that motor link is for a single phase. You'll want their 3 --> 1.5kw 2HP 1400rpm shaft 24mm Electric motor Three phase 415v

If the VFD and motor are coming from Canon Motor, why not have them wire it up, add a plug and program it for you?

Saves the work on your end, plus a sparky.

[woodPixel]

Also, a thought on the drive mechanism, one doesn't need to get fancy.

A basic pulley and a longer serpentine belt from SupaCheap would be fine.



Buy a custom-length Gilmer Drive as used in some V8's*..... now that would be SEXY!!!


* As some supercharged engines, cough, get belt slip

[delbs]

Good idea. Ive emailed them asking if they can provide the 3 phase version of the unit and appropriate vfd wired along with an on/off switch

Will see what price they come back with. I am coming across more motors online the deeper i dig, a lot in VIC region but no shipping available.

[delbs]

Anyone aware of a way to have a quick release lever on the banjo on this model lathe?
woodfast.jpg

Or are there more universal banjos around that have the quick release lever that fit with different model lathes?

[NeilS]

Anyone aware of a way to have a quick release lever on the banjo on this model lathe?

woodfast.jpg

Or are there more universal banjos around that have the quick release lever that fit with different model lathes?

Those banjos came with a simple ring spanner. If missing, just make one to fit. This is not as convenient as the quick release handle built into later banjos, but if you stow the spanner conveniently nearby on the lathe with something like a magnet you can do adjustments quickly enough. If using it a lot, something like a ratchet spanner works a bit better.


If looking for a replacement banjo keep in mind that the height of the post receiver needs to match the tool post size of your tool rests but also the centre height of the lathe when the tool rest is in place. The banjos with the quick release mechanism built into them came on later lathes that mostly had higher centres and, without modification, would not match an older lathe with a 6" high centre.


I'm not sure if the bed gap varied much between the different Woodfast models, but the width of the machining under the ways needs to be at least as wide as the flange that pulls up underneath when tightened. So, another factor to keep in mind if you should be looking for a replacement banjo.