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Thread: Lost figure

  1. #1
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    Default Lost figure

    This is a rather unremarkable looking blank that came from the opposite side of a piece of E. miniata that I didnt photograph because it too was rather unremarkable looking.

    It wasnt until I started turning it that the grain became apparent

    The above photo taken at the beginning of roughing out and a light coat of linseed oil at sunset



    As I was roughing out further it was clear that the inner bowl grain will be whittled away into shavings.
    The grain was only about 15-20mm deep before it was lost. The bowl is ~ 250mm diam x 65mm deep


    Although disappointed, I was okay with this. With its cracks and voids it wasnt the best blank to choose from. However I would have loved to have a McNaughtons centre saver to make a shallow dish/plate out of that figured grain.

    I have some larger billets to look forward to in addition to some large pieces of ironwood.
    A recent upgrade to a 3hp lathe now has me looking at centre saving

    I have read almost all posts here on Woodcut, Oneway and McNaughtns coring systems.
    Not concerned about the kit paying itself off, more so all the benefits centre saving will bring; primarily reduced waste and time hogging out.

    I understand the Kelton McNaughton system is more versatile but has a steeper learning curve.
    Thinking of a set of standard and large knives will suit intended purposes.

    No doubts about coring the woollybutt but how well will the KM system go through Cooktown ironwood up to ~ 400mm?
    A significant amount of ironwood I have is semi dry.

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  3. #2
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    I am glad you raised the question because I had a look and found this clip.


    Coring Bowl Blanks with the McNaughton Center Saver System - YouTube

    I got a secondhand one years ago and having watched that clip I can see there was a whole lot of things I was not doing right. I was kind of visualising and of course it was not always that precise. I was getting another blank even if it was not always how I imagined so saving wood all the same. My lathe is a lot smaller than that and it takes attention not to stall so easy going and sharp are important. I have not tried the others so can not comment on them. It is good to get spare blanks rather than piles of shavings if its really nice looking wood.
    Regards
    John

  4. #3
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    It's a shame you lost all that character. It was looking pretty nice. Still looks good, but could have been better looking with the figure.

    On some of the blanks that I've turned that had that beautiful look that is shown in the second picture, I would reverse the piece and all that figure would end up on the bottom of the bowl instead of in a bag of chips. Granted, the McNaughton system helps tremendously, but orientation will always save the day.......... Jerry (in Tucson)USA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Woodwork View Post

    ... how well will the KM system go through Cooktown ironwood up to ~ 400mm?
    A significant amount of ironwood I have is semi dry.
    Your 3HP lathe will be an advantage, but the semi dry ironwood will be a challenge. Keeping the tips sharp will be essential and managing the chip removal to reduce clogging will also be important. If the tip is left in the V shape as supplied I found that the shavings formed a butterfly that was more prone to opening up and clogging in the kerf, particularly in green wood. I found that a partially truncated tip broke up the shavings better and also improved tracking if the straight section across the tip point is aligned with the radius of the blade curve.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



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    Quote Originally Posted by orraloon View Post
    I am glad you raised the question because I had a look and found this clip.


    Coring Bowl Blanks with the McNaughton Center Saver System - YouTube

    I got a secondhand one years ago and having watched that clip I can see there was a whole lot of things I was not doing right. I was kind of visualising and of course it was not always that precise. I was getting another blank even if it was not always how I imagined so saving wood all the same. My lathe is a lot smaller than that and it takes attention not to stall so easy going and sharp are important. I have not tried the others so can not comment on them. It is good to get spare blanks rather than piles of shavings if its really nice looking wood.
    Regards
    John

    Thanks John.
    That WTE youtube link appears to use the same method that Dale Bonertz demonstrates here:
    Dale Bonertz demonstrates the McNaughton Center Saver - YouTube
    Good to see another using the same method. I can see myself being a little cock-eyed before obtaining a calibrated eye
    Yes, I agree. Much better to have several blanks than all that waste


    Quote Originally Posted by Nubsnstubs View Post
    It's a shame you lost all that character. It was looking pretty nice. Still looks good, but could have been better looking with the figure.

    On some of the blanks that I've turned that had that beautiful look that is shown in the second picture, I would reverse the piece and all that figure would end up on the bottom of the bowl instead of in a bag of chips. Granted, the McNaughton system helps tremendously, but orientation will always save the day.......... Jerry (in Tucson)USA
    Hi Jerry - yes, a bit of a shame. I was more or less locked in to that orientation due to natural curvature of that outer bark. I could have reversed it but I would have ended up with a much smaller bowl. In retrospect, after roughing the outside first then moving to core and discovering that grain I would have gone the other way. I think that the 1.3TPI ridges and pattern from the bandsaw hid all that grain character. I will quickly run the electric planer over these blanks in the future so I reveal what may lay below. I will let that roughed out bowl dry out for a little while, do a final turn and post a couple pics.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post
    Your 3HP lathe will be an advantage, but the semi dry ironwood will be a challenge. Keeping the tips sharp will be essential and managing the chip removal to reduce clogging will also be important. If the tip is left in the V shape as supplied I found that the shavings formed a butterfly that was more prone to opening up and clogging in the kerf, particularly in green wood. I found that a partially truncated tip broke up the shavings better and also improved tracking if the straight section across the tip point is aligned with the radius of the blade curve.
    Hi Neil, I have seen a couple conflicting posts about the tip shape. Some say that a pointed tip is better for harder woods as it creates less cutting resistance while others say a flat is better. I'm trying to envisage your description of a truncated tip aligning with the radius of the blade curve. In my minds eye I see a reversed wedge point aiming/slightly turned toward the direction of the cut. Have I got that right?

    I have noted those that use a sharp tip point in harder woods or larger blanks (not necessarily hard wood) have 1-2HP and need to 'in and out' to clear the shavings regularly

    Cheers
    FW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Woodwork View Post

    Hi Neil, I have seen a couple conflicting posts about the tip shape. Some say that a pointed tip is better for harder woods as it creates less cutting resistance while others say a flat is better. I'm trying to envisage your description of a truncated tip aligning with the radius of the blade curve. In my minds eye I see a reversed wedge point aiming/slightly turned toward the direction of the cut. Have I got that right?

    I have noted those that use a sharp tip point in harder woods or larger blanks (not necessarily hard wood) have 1-2HP and need to 'in and out' to clear the shavings regularly

    Cheers
    FW
    Yes, there are different opinions on tip profile. The original design had a straight across tip but later on that was changed to the V. I modified mine to be half way between the two... I'll take a photo the next time I'm around at my workshop to show that.

    I could have bought extra sets to have both profiles, but having both the large and standard set of blades that would be another $600 (without the straights) and I doubt that those would then pay for themselves any time soon.

    On lathe power for coring, I have 1.5hp and that is more than adequate for everything I throw at it other than larger coring. The 1.5hp gets tested close to its limits on medium density woods above about 15" with deep coring.

    Cored bowl - m.jpg

    And, yes, 2 to 3hp would be much better for larger coring, but I rarely get blanks that would be best used for deep bowls above about 18" ID... there isn't much demand for wooden baby baths nowadays! I find that larger blanks above that size are best used to make a number of platters.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post
    The original design had a straight across tip but later on that was changed to the V. I modified mine to be half way between the two... I'll take a photo the next time I'm around at my workshop to show that.
    Here we are side by side... the V on left and my modified tip on right.


    I felt penned the top of the tips for contrast so that they could be better seen against the background. I put a high polish on the top of the tips to give the best edge after grinding/honing the lower bevels only. As received the top of the tips come with deep ugly grind tracks that need to be ground out then polished.

    And, here is what I was referring in relation to the straight section across the tip point being aligned with the radius of the blade curve... done to encourage the tip to cut on the curve.


    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  9. #8
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    I read the title as Lost Finger
    I would love to grow my own food, but I can not find bacon seeds

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post
    Here we are side by side... the V on left and my modified tip on right.

    Thanks Neil, that pic clarifies things very well



    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post
    And, here is what I was referring in relation to the straight section across the tip point being aligned with the radius of the blade curve... done to encourage the tip to cut on the curve.


    Again, the picture tells many words
    I will go about sourcing a KM system. Will bite the bullet and see how it goes through high density timber.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyz View Post
    I read the title as Lost Finger

  11. #10
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    Default coring and all that jazz

    The Kelton is versatile, but I would recommend doing a fair amount of practice. As for tip shapes etc, whilst I have a Kelton I am not enamoured with the tip. By the look of its stellite or something similar. I would rather prefer to have the Rolly Munro tip set up. A 6mm round carbide cup type. At the end of the day the Kelton is probably your best bet. Tip shape is a matter of choice, I prefer the three facited type as I turn hardwood and have found the sharp point isnt always the best.


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    Hi Hughie. I hope you had a good Christmas and new year
    Thanks for the advice and tip shape recommendation.
    When you say three faceted type do you mean flattening the point at the tip as Neil has posted above?

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Woodwork View Post
    Hi Hughie. I hope you had a good Christmas and new year
    Thanks for the advice and tip shape recommendation.
    When you say three faceted type do you mean flattening the point at the tip as Neil has posted above?
    Yeah the theory is the three faces break the chips up and provide less jamming etc. But what I find much depends on the timber species. I have some Blackwood thats very sticky and jams no matter what, super hard timber turns to powder and is just about gets hot enough to ignite.
    The only real method is to back off the corer to allow the chips to fall away then go back in cutting alitle more on one side to open up the cut. This should allow more chips etc to escape.


  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughie View Post
    The Kelton is versatile, but I would recommend doing a fair amount of practice. As for tip shapes etc, whilst I have a Kelton I am not enamoured with the tip. By the look of its stellite or something similar. I would rather prefer to have the Rolly Munro tip set up. A 6mm round carbide cup type. At the end of the day the Kelton is probably your best bet. Tip shape is a matter of choice, I prefer the three facited type as I turn hardwood and have found the sharp point isnt always the best.
    hughie, do I read this to say you would like a 6mm round TC cutter on the Kelton tools?
    If that's what you meant, I have thought about it but I don't think 6mm will cut a wide enough kerf for the blades to clear.
    On my hollowing rig I use Trent Bosch bars with 6mm TC tips and it's awesome so I gave some thought to modifying the Kelton bars, but I think 8mm or 10mm tips will be needed.
    Rgds,
    Crocy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Croc View Post
    hughie, do I read this to say you would like a 6mm round TC cutter on the Kelton tools?
    If that's what you meant, I have thought about it but I don't think 6mm will cut a wide enough kerf for the blades to clear.
    On my hollowing rig I use Trent Bosch bars with 6mm TC tips and it's awesome so I gave some thought to modifying the Kelton bars, but I think 8mm or 10mm tips will be needed.
    Rgds,
    Crocy.
    Nah the comment was about the Munro Coring tool, sorry for the confusion.


    I'm only guessing at the diameter from a video. It well be 8mm, doubtful it would go as far as 10mm

    Rolly Munro Wood Turning Tools | Journey Woodturning

    Wood turning, tool design and making AAA. But his salemanship lags behind some.


  16. #15
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    Ordered a KM centre saver kit this morning. Waited till today for TimberBits sale - 15% this week

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