Thread: Metalwork question: making your own tools

Originally Posted by rsser

Think tho that I'm pushing the boundaries trying to shape a 1 1/2" x 3/8" HSS blank.

Seems to me there's a point beyond which the longer it takes to shape something the more errors you're likely to get, and also below which ditto cos you're going too fast. The 'point of flow' or something.

Too right. Equally true whether shaping tools or timber.

Your tool-making is on a different level to mine, which is why I'm watching with interest. Where you're shaping the blanks directly into more complex forms, I simply "evolve" the form with each successive grind during use. Even when prepping a new tool from a blank, it'll be ground it to a profile I already know and understand... I'm not very adventurous that way. [shrug] 'Sides, it saves me the effort of trying to remove a lot of HSS in a short time.

I have to admit that I've been tempted to try my hand at the oland tool though. Or at least a close approximation. Something I can hold in my hand and actually see how it should address the wood. Wish I knew someone who had the real thing I could take for a test-drive...

Hi Slow, you can get captive spanners from eng. shops btw.

As for the tang, you may be right; it's a compromise cos I can't afford to lose much more reach into a form.

Skew, check out

http://www.aroundthewoods.com/hollow1.shtml

esp the last vid. On making your own tools, inc the Oland:

http://www.aroundthewoods.com/tools.shtml

And if you're down the northern suburbs anytime feel free to drop in.

[Edit: just noticed 3 vids at the bottom of the tools page there; I've seen an old vid of Vic Wood turning his winged bowls with a scraper with the bevel rubbing in a similar way.
In Darrell's it's clear that the cutting edge is above centre.]

Thanks for the links Ern, Darrell's site is now in my bookmarks. He had me hooked as soon as I read the opening paragraph! My estimation of the site went through the roof when I spotted one of my own tools (Well... it's twin anyway) in his pix. The one where he comments about harpoons? Right down to the duct-tape handle... Gotta do something about prettying it up one day...

That harpoon looks like a beast! ... tell us more ;-}

And how do you like his armbrace :eek: .. be better than a workout down the gym I reckon.

Well blame where .. oops, credit where credit is due Courtesy of your and Toolin's comments I've bitten the bullet and got a decent vise as well as a tap and drill kit. Just did the first 6mm tap. Not much meat tho in a 5/8 rod with a 3/8 bit (lucky the hole wasn't centred ) so the next will be 2 x 4mm, and the one after that will be an angled bit.

You'll have noticed that Darrell F is using square bits for the Oland tool so that gives him a longer bevel for cutting on the side. Also explains his 1 x 6mm grub screw. I'll experiment with square bits next.

Vise: 'prismatic' 4" drill press vice from Hare and Forbes ($69)
Tap and drill kit: ditto (also $69)
M2 HSS round, square and rectangular cross-sections: McJing (cheap, they have a website and do mail order)

If I hadn't been on two wheels I might have succumbed to the H&F cut off saw for $120.

It's clearly much cheaper making your own tools

Originally Posted by rsser

That harpoon looks like a beast! ... tell us more ;-}

Better still, the camera just got back from hol's so I'll attach a couple of out-of-focus pics. This is the toy I'll be shaping an Oland tip for, if I can get my head around the form. This beasty can really hog out the wood and yet is surprisingly accurate on final cuts. Too large for my goblets, but is used on almost everything else.

I can't take any credit for machining the handle, the kudos for that goes to a friend. Actually, the same mate who supplied me with the bit of square rod visible behind the tool... which is 3/8" stock that fits nice'n'snug inside some rect. tube. [gloat, gloat] The sort of stock that machine-shop fights break out over.

I think that friend's a keeper.

Well blame where .. oops, credit where credit is due Courtesy of your and Toolin's comments I've bitten the bullet and got a decent vise as well as a tap and drill kit. Just did the first 6mm tap. Not much meat tho in a 5/8 rod with a 3/8 bit (lucky the hole wasn't centred ) so the next will be 2 x 4mm, and the one after that will be an angled bit.

It's only a small learning curve, fortunately. I assume you're using a cutting paste when tapping? I've found that a small dab on the end of the drill-bit, along with a good centre-punch, makes things easier too.

You'll have noticed that Darrell F is using square bits for the Oland tool so that gives him a longer bevel for cutting on the side. Also explains his 1 x 6mm grub screw. I'll experiment with square bits next.

I've been lucky in that I usually get my HSS in the form of square stock thrown away by a metal-turner. Hasn't profiled the tip right? In the bin and start again with another. Some people... but his waste, my gain. Who'm I to to try to change his habits?

Vise: 'prismatic' 4" drill press vice from Hare and Forbes ($69)
Tap and drill kit: ditto (also $69)
M2 HSS round, square and rectangular cross-sections: McJing (cheap, they have a website and do mail order)

If I hadn't been on two wheels I might have succumbed to the H&F cut off saw for $120.

It's clearly much cheaper making your own tools

McJing's an oft-referenced name in my shed, too. Funny, that. Methinks I'll have to pay H&F a visit as I dropped my press-vice and discovered (in the most unpleasant way) that the frame was only cast. Not a good feeling. I really should know better than to sweep the floor...

Hmm, an articulated arm like the mark 2 Munro hollower. Neat. Whole new avenue of trial and expense opens up!

Tapping: just used light machine oil Skew. Needed to be done twice ....... ?

Funny about dropping your vice .. did just that at H&F today with the newie. Hit the foot of the bloke next to me at the counter. (Intake of breath) .. he says, lucky my foot was there or it'd have hit the floor }

So the moral is .... nah, let it hit the floor. You can have my $20 old model for postage ;-}

When using in artic. mode I've found it's best to use it "upside down" so the flat sits on the rest. I've yet to make a brace for it, that's another job on the to-do list.

Tapping: just used light machine oil Skew. Needed to be done twice ....... ?

Nothing unusual there. I run the tap through two or three times, just to make sure it's clear. I've been told it's a bad habit, apparently it can cause oversize holes... but I haven't had that problem. Yet. [shrug]

Funny about dropping your vice .. did just that at H&F today with the newie. Hit the foot of the bloke next to me at the counter. (Intake of breath) .. he says, lucky my foot was there or it'd have hit the floor }

So the moral is .... nah, let it hit the floor. You can have my $20 old model for postage ;-}

The moral is "don't sweep the floor." I'm tempted to take you up on that offer, even if I do buy another from H&F. I like to have mine bolted to the d/press table but I'm forever removing it for use with the Dremel, which is what I was doing when I fumbled...

Gentlemen, Very interesting thread and informative, much appreciated. hughie

Glad you're finding the ramblings useful Hughie.

This kind of work can get it's hooks into you. Attached are some pics of the Ellsworth hollowing tool. Tip looks like shaped square section with a turned stem for mounting. He uses superglue too.

While I like the grub screw method, for 5/16" or bigger tips it demands larger mounts than CA does, and that means going beyond the 5/8" rod that fits my handle.

Originally Posted by rsser

While I like the grub screw method, for 5/16" or bigger tips it demands larger mounts than CA does, and that means going beyond the 5/8" rod that fits my handle.

I've found that I have problems sharpening some of my tips if they're left in the handle, so I remove them and mount 'em in a small plate (I s'pose you could call it a jig) for sharpening. CA would make this rather... awkward.

I've beentoying with the idea of drilling the end of a bar to take the tip and then splitting the end of the bar past the hole, so I could use a hex-bolt like a cotter-pin to clamp the bit in. Not quite as streamlined as a grub-screw, but it works around the depth of material problem. Of course, slotting the bar is going to take some ingenuity. Now, where'd I put my phone...?

Yeah, well if I standardize on 5/8 rod for the mount then I'm guessing for sharpening a simple block with a hole that diam., and a thumbscrew, will provide clearance on the grinder table.

But I reckon that the 5/8 mount will be too limiting anyway, esp. for larger Oland bits.

I see what you're driving at with your idea. It would need to be a solid. If a narrow form opening weren't an issue then a cam clamp like on a push bike seat might be the go.

Yes, the 5/8 is a bit limiting.

I've been slowly moving into solid shafts as they have less flex, so are less prone to chatter. Earlier shafts were made from square tube with snug-fitting solid stock glued/tacked in as a stiffener. By moving the filler back an inch or so from the tubes' end it saved drilling for square tips, too. Sadly, only the imperial sized stock seems to have the snug fit, metric is a tad too sloppy. As stores of imperial stock dwindle... [sigh]

The main reason I mention the "tube tools" is they may provide another alternative for your grub-screws; the walls of the tube are too thin for a grub-screw but if you pre-drill and braze/solder a suitable nut on the outside... Not a solution for the larger tips, I know, but it does maximise the size of the tip you can mount in the 5/8. Which, as I'm sure you know, is a damned good size for closed forms.

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quote=rsser]Glad you're finding the ramblings useful Hughie.

This kind of work can get it's hooks into you. Attached are some pics of the Ellsworth hollowing tool. Tip looks like shaped square section with a turned stem for mounting. He uses superglue too.

While I like the grub screw method, for 5/16" or bigger tips it demands larger mounts than CA does, and that means going beyond the 5/8" rod that fits my handle.

[/QUOTE]

Ern, I off set my hole as to give more meat for the grub screw. So far it has not been a hindrance when turning.

As to ramblings I can learn from your mistakes....... and pick up on your winners

hughie

I might be mad, but the madness has a method

I've been toying with the idea of drilling the end of a bar to take the tip and then splitting the end of the bar past the hole, so I could use a hex-bolt like a cotter-pin to clamp the bit in. Not quite as streamlined as a grub-screw, but it works around the depth of material problem. Of course, slotting the bar is going to take some ingenuity.

Skew, You could try a hack saw and a warding file.Wider slots try using more than one hacksaw blade....2-3 should fit ok, any wider to separate cuts and then the file.
Or........somebody with a milling machine..

hughie