Online horrors

**ubeaut** · 18th August 2020, 01:17 AM

Replies inline below.

Originally Posted by Lyle

While I agree with a lot of the comments expressed here, I am also dismayed by some.

I struggle with turning. My skill is slowly getting better by asking for feedback and help with how to use the tools and finishes etc.
Fastest and best way to learn (if you can afford it) is to have a lesson or 2 with an experienced turner who's proficient in teaching. Particularly learn how to sharpen the tools and how to make them cut correctly once you've got that sorted out practise, practise, practise. Unfortunately most of the woodturning weekends are shut down for the rest of this year but if you ever get a chance, DUTA (Down Under Turn Around) is a great weekend where you can do your own thing and usually get the benefit of a number of top turners who will be more than happy to help if you ask. There are other such events around Australia and many will a let you know when they're coming up, on here.
However a lot of people give their opinions without any basis of knowledge or experience.
True that..... Nup don't like it, too thick, too thin, too big, too red. That's lovely dear does it come in pink.

Form function design finish all play into the finished article.
They do especially if you're looking to sell or entering an exhibition.

Too many people are biased by one particular turner, material, finish, style.
That's also pretty well true. Ideally isolate yourself and do your own thing, Maybe see what others do and either try to improve on their work or change it to your liking and style. Hero worshipping does nothing for you other than give you someone or something to fixate on and may make you feel inferior.

Find your own style, be it dead simple but well executed, or really over the top fancy, but what ever you do, do it to as high a standard as you can. If you keep trying to be better you eventually will be and you may not even notice how long it took or how hard it was because you were having fun getting there and loving the journey.

Competitions judged byy non-turners are not productive to anyone.
In all the years of AWTEX I can only remember one where there was a couple of non woodturner judging. I remember it well as I was one of the experienced judges. One was a bloke no one knew who rushed through all the items, an left about an hour after starting the main judging (usually a 2-4 hour job) One particular piece that all judges bar two thought would win best of show didn't even get a looking. The 2nd non turner judge was a professional JEWELERY judge and had no idea of judging woodturning. She looked at what should have been the best piece, said I don't like that and chose a turned bowl with carves and painted leaves because it was what she liked. It was a nice bowl but not worthy of a top place. So to my knowledge there were only 2 non turners that judge at only one exhibition over a period of around 20 years.

Finding people to give honest unbiased experrienced critiques is important, but hard to find those people sometimes.
There are plenty on here but most don't give honest critiques for fear of upsetting people and maybe losing a potentially good member or even turning them off turning. Especially if it's a pretty harsh critique.

The best person to critique your work should be you. I was a professional woodcarver and turner for well over 30 years and I was always my harshest critique of my work. Never 100% happy with what I'd done. Those I sold to couldn't find fault and willingly paid up to a few thousand dollars for my work. I can actually recall being 100% happy with anything I made even though there were never any faults and everything was always spot on and perfect there was always that niggling feeling that I could have done something different or better or.....

If I was to see any of my work now I'd probably say wow that's brilliant - perfect. But all I ever see are the 10 minute quickies knocked up at a demo. Like the ones below.
Lyle

**Fumbler** · 18th August 2020, 03:46 AM

As for the "specialist turners/wood workers", posting things on youtube, unfortunately there is no control over content, and as such, any muppet with a lathe can throw something up, hoping to get more views and make a buck the easy way as they wouldn't be able to sell their stuff to make money. They should count themselves lucky that no one injures themselves (by seeing what they are doing wrong) then sues either Youtube or the poster for following their crazy actions.

I might have turned a few things but i still consider myself a novice, and often refer to a book on wood turning i bought (Phil Irons -two books in one), but i also use youtube to see something in action, and the more i view, the more i come to realize who are the kosher turners and who's a dangerous muppet. I can't say i have seen the particular video you are talking about, but early on it was a bit confusing wondering if this guy is doing it right or did it just turn out right through sheer luck.

I also love those wonderful workers plying their trade in thongs, they are gold.

**ubeaut** · 19th August 2020, 01:11 AM

Speaking of working in thongs. Over the last month or so I've derived great pleasure from watching some of the Japanese and Chinese Masters woodworkers painstaking doing their work. Sitting on the floor, holding work down with a foot (often bare footed or wearing traditional Japanese Tabi footwear) or a hand whilst making exacting cuts for joints with razor sharp tools. There is almost a serine beauty in what they do.

I have been fascinated by some of the exacting repetition turning done on crude lathes (by our standards) with tools often make for them selves to use for a specific job. Again, all whilst sitting on the floor and with amazing precision.

if you haven't seen any of these I highly recommend them for a bit of a look. You won't be disappointed.

Takes me back to when I started turning with a way less crude lathes but still a far cry from the lathes of today.

Cheers - Neil

PS Still have a small treadle lathe from the 1930 and the head and tail stock from the lathe that was supposed to have turned the plinth for the (English made) first Melbourne Cup back in i867. I believe that lath was brought out from England 2nd hand around 1860. There was supposed to be paperwork on its history when I purchased it from a deceased estate back in early 1970 but it couldn't be found.

**Allan at Wallan** · 20th August 2020, 06:11 PM

Ken Wraight, a member of our Northern Woodturning Club, was holding a group session in which I was participating. At one stage he heard a decent
catch on my lathe. Politely he walked over and said, "Do you know what you did wrong Al". I answered, "Yes Ken". "Ok", he said, "Don't do it again".
At that stage I was paranoid that I might get another catch and that I had not learned a thing.
To this day I am haunted by the fact that it would have been better to admit my error and learn something from a master turner.
I thank Ken for his contribution to the club and feel sure the overall standard of woodturning has improved because of his expertise.

**Brenton Stein** · 21st August 2020, 06:36 PM

Maybe we don't get quality turners on youtube because from what I have heard they are not welcome on the demonstrators circuit especially in the US.

**China** · 5th September 2020, 07:06 PM

Today I went to local farmers market, there happened to be a young fellow turning simple items for sale naturally I stood around for a bit, he was turning things like honey dippers, for which he had a multi blade cutter made up to cut the flutes, and then moved on to small bowels still using a spindle gouge.
When there was no one watching I spoke to him and explained that it is inherently dangerous, and that one day he may have a nasty mishap. (this bloke was not old enough to have been woodturning as long as I have)
Well apparently that is old school technology and these days we know that is does not make any real difference as to the chisel used and if I had the amount of experience that he has I would know this. So I guess I must be out of touch.

**LanceC** · 5th September 2020, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by China

..., and then moved on to small bowels still using a spindle gouge.
When there was no one watching I spoke to him and explained that it is inherently dangerous, and that one day he may have a nasty mishap.

Could you please expand on this? As a beginner turner I'd like to understand what makes this inherently dangerous. Given a small bowl and for example, a half inch spindle gouge, is it the lack of tool strength that is the issue?

I understand that a spindle roughing gauge is a no-no, but don't think that is what you are referring to here.

**Brenton Stein** · 8th September 2020, 11:44 AM

I can't see the problem with using a spindle gouge on a bowl, particularly the outside. I use them all the time and it ain't dangerous IMHO. Apologies to Admin for getting off topic.

**Mobyturns** · 8th September 2020, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Brenton Stein

Maybe we don't get quality turners on youtube because from what I have heard they are not welcome on the demonstrators circuit especially in the US.

Hmm, that's a pretty broad statement. Not sure that the AAW would agree as,

Stuart Batty, who is probably one of the best as far as an experienced and very technically competent turner / demonstrator, for example was listed as a 2020 Louisville Demonstrator.

Simon Begg from Australia, also listed for 2020, is a very promising emerging talent as a demonstrator and is posting very good demos on social media.

Ashley Harwood, a student of Stuart Batty, again very competent & active on social media, & Youtube.

Emma Cook, aka The Tiny Turner, very competent & active on social media, & Youtube.

Glen Lucas .....

**chambezio** · 8th September 2020, 02:27 PM

I built my lathe about 40 years ago. It started off "crude" but I have been able to build in some better refinements. OK I can turn wood.....but I don't regard myself as a "Wood Turner". Why? I think that my results are never as good/perfect as I would like (Neil alluded to this state of mind). I may not touch the lathe for months at a time but then may use it daily for a few weeks, in between other pressing jobs. A mate taught me the basics of stick welding 45 years ago(gee I'm getting old) He would give a very harsh critique of my welds. You know even to this day I still go over my welds in detail and I am still hard on myself.

It probably comes down to what standard you allow your self to be at and whether or not you can "live" with the results. A lot of what I have turned has been given away so there isn't a whole lot on exhibition on shelves in the house. I do like the challenge of "taming" a piece of timber and making a variety of stuff further extending my skills (and competing with myself). My wife gets annoyed when I produce something and I comment "its OK but"
I will get off my soap box and blend into the crowd

PS You Tube videos of someone cutting, drilling,grinding etc etc bore me to tears. Or there is some one who drones on and on and produces a mediocre job at the end. There should be a penalty for these people who waste time like that

**Shyrat** · 11th September 2020, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by ubeaut

Fastest and best way to learn (if you can afford it) is to have a lesson or 2 with an experienced turner who's proficient in teaching.

Any recommendations for private lessons in Melbourne Neil?

Obviously it would have to wait until lockdown ends, but as a cabinet maker I bought a lathe a while ago and have taught myself so that I'm proficient enough to turn things I need for furniture and cabinetry like handles, feet etc.

I would really like to get better at bowl turning in particular and I have no doubt that a couple of lessons would advance my skills far beyond what they would just by watching YouTube videos.

Cheers,

Sam

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**Fergiz01** · 14th September 2020, 04:49 PM

What's the consensus on Rob Cosman's recent videos on learning to use the skew chisel and spindle gauge? Good advise for a novice turner to attempt to emulate? Cheers, Zac

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**Brenton Stein** · 14th September 2020, 05:55 PM

Average. He takes way too long to actually spin a piece of wood (it's approx 12 min in before there is any action) and only seems to know the basics of the skew. There is a lot he didn't show, in particular the scenariaos to avoid. A lot can go wrong when using the skew and he didn't show any of this. And finishing the sharpening process with a diamond pad is a waste of time. But there was some good stuff.

**Oldmeadow** · 14th September 2020, 06:17 PM

Does anyone have further recommendations for online learning resources that ARE good?

I noted "Glen Lucas, Stuart Batty, the late Alan Batty" mentioned near the beginning of this threat. I searched those ones up and saw a lot of long form videos that appear fantastic.

Are there other threads with this information? I'd love to learn more.

Thanks in advance!

**Shyrat** · 15th September 2020, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Brenton Stein

Average. He takes way too long to actually spin a piece of wood (it's approx 12 min in before there is any action) and only seems to know the basics of the skew. There is a lot he didn't show, in particular the scenariaos to avoid. A lot can go wrong when using the skew and he didn't show any of this. And finishing the sharpening process with a diamond pad is a waste of time. But there was some good stuff.

Have you watched any of the videos on Instagram from @Stevethewoodturner s production turner and an absolute master of the skew. Doesn't do any How to videos, but I've learnt a lot just by watching his work.

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