Thread: Online horrors

Well said!

I'm a youngish guy and am becoming increasingly aware of haphazardry on YouTube. I watch it a lot for ideas and inspiration however I am fortunately learning enough now to stop watching a few minutes into many videos. Even some professionals have some interesting (sometimes disturbing) quirks in their techniques that could easily lead to disaster.

At the start of this year I had a relatively minor but still painful freak accident in which a thick and heavy piece of oak that was learning 'securely' against a shelf was nicked by the bottom of a bag that I had grabbed from a shelf above it. It proceeded to fall between my legs after I had turned around and knocked the nail off my big toe. Thankfully there is no permanent damage however it was yet again another lesson of the value of being as careful and thoughtful as possible. I have since worn steel caps boots almost everywhere. And to think that I used to do some woodwork in thongs! (flip flops for any Americans!!)

I try and search for safety tips regularly to enhance my knowledge and actually listen to the tips of the 'oldies' at the club.

I feel sad for the loss of hands-on tool knowledge that seems to be happening with so many cabinet and grinding shops etc closing down.

Well put, and wholeheartedly agree with you.
Just because you have a lathe, camera doesn't make you a woodturning guru. Another thing that gets my ire up is the poor design of the bowls especially on Facebook. Maybe what we need is some of the great turners doing a couple of posts on what a well designed bowl should look like. Everybody is too frightened to do constructive criticism in case they get banned for being a FB troll

Richard

I learnt woodturning at trade school back in the early seventies as a post trade course (Cabinet maker) so as to gain my furnishing trade certificate, I agree some of the stuff on you tube is really scary, if I had practised some of the things you see on youtube I would have been told leave the building
I sharpen by hand always have, I was given jig some years ago it is still in its box, never got around to setting it up

Everybody is too frightened to do constructive criticism in case they get banned for being a FB troll

New turners like anyone learning something new need encouragement. However, they also need a bit of honest constructive criticism.

I haven't really got in and viewed a lot of posts/threads in Woodturning Forum for some time now, but when I had the time and energy, for a few years I read most of them. But after 21 years of the forums I really don't have the time to do what I used to in the early days of the forums.

What I used to see often was someone post a photo of a very ordinary turned item with pick-out and sometimes dirt from sanding sealed into the pick-out and with a heavy coat of beeswax. No one mentioned how horrible it was but said things like wow good job, that's beautiful, great job, etc. etc.

No one was game to offer any critical help for fear of being shouted down or offending the poster. When or if someone ever offered/suggested helpful criticism others criticised the person offering the criticism. Even had the criticised poster criticise the criticiser as being unfairly critical of their work.

Years ago AWTEX (Australian Wood Turning Exhibition) and others used to jury out items that weren't up to scratch, mostly to make judging quicker and easier. I have judged a number of times and found things in the open section that would have been juried out of the novice section at the earlier exhibitions.

At the T&WWWShow (Timber & Working With Wood show) in Sydney many years ago I was asked by a woodturning club to give them an honest opinion of their work and stand. I asked if they wanted me to be honest or just comment. Honest, please, brutally honest. I suggested that there were about 3 items on the stand that they should keep and the rest did nothing for promoting woodturning or their club. I was told they wanted everyone to be able to have a go and exhibit their work. I suggested they have a look at the woodcarvers group behind them also other turning groups and quality of work which was professional and on the whole of high standard.

I went back to my stand and continued setting up when I saw Chris our demonstrator over on their stand. When he returned I asked what was going on and he said they wanted an honest criticism of their work and stand. He told them they should keep 3 or 4 items and probably take the rest to the tip.

A few minutes later we both looked across at their stand and there was a huddle of what we presumed, was anger/upset gentlemen, and every now and then a person would pop up out of the huddle, glaring and pointing in our direction.

I believe they sold very little at that show, but the next year turned up with a way better display and much, much better work and from then on had way better sales and enrolments.

My thought is "if you wouldn't be prepared to pay good money for it in a shop then it's not good enough."

Take honest constructive critical for what it is "help", and not as a put down. If you can't do that continue turning and enjoying what you do and give your items to friends and family who say they like it. They'll either display it proudly or bring it out whenever they know you're coming to visit.

Sorry for the protracted rant, but it's a bit like we've turned into a society who praise the also rans probably because there are no winners or losers in schools any more and every one must get a ribbon or medal for competing. Unless you're an Olympian then you get great adulation if you win, called a loser if you place and useless if you don't place even though you're competing against the worlds best. Sad but mostly/often true.

A while ago an Oz woodturner of UK origin was in Canada and was asked what he thought of the display the local turners club had organised.
He stood up before the multitude and said. “I see before me acres of dross”.
They ran him out of town on a rail. ( It was a western province).

I was giving same gentleman a lift back to his workshop after we had both had pieces rejected from a Sydney Exhibition.
I was pretty ticked off as my piece was good enough for Fine Woodworking Design book 4?
Also made a design article alongside Mark Newson in a local publication.
The Woodies who ran the club where a tad conservative design wise.
Mike said not to worry about it as,
“I’ve been thrown out of much better exhibitions than that Henry”.
I think his rejected piece was an elephant’s foot or maybe ‘Sturt’s desert pee’.

At a furniture exhibition in the ACT a hi profile Pom guru took out top award for a lounge where his signature minofibre filament seat covering and wood movement had lifted one leg an inch off the deck. The minions just oohed a aahed cos George had made it so it must be perfect.

So yeah let’s have some honest crit but ‘those who throw stones’.

Not sure I’ve seen much design as such on this forum in any area.

Theres a crazy Kiwi and an ex panelbeater in Vic that tickle my fancy.

H.

Design isn't everything but it definitely helps.

Design, form, execution and finish are all pretty high on the list.

However I have see some pretty poorly designed work by even top turners that has been extremely well executed and finished that I may want to own.

On the other hand I've see some excellently designed and executed work with amazing form, that up close still had pockmarks from a poorly executed last minute coat of sanding sealer, in an exhibition by one of Australias' most awarded turners. A great finish to match a great piece could have seen it win him Best of Show without a doubt.

Originally Posted by ubeaut

Years ago new turners got a lot of their info from the Guru in the club probably many still do. However unless you we lucky enough to have the likes of Vic Wood, Ken Wraite, Steven Hughes or any of the other amazing top Aussie turners in the club, the Guru usually turned out to be not quite as Guruish as he/you thought he was.


Cheers - Neil

We are lucky enough to have Richard Raffan as our resident Guru. We had an adhoc 1 hour demo yesterday at the Shed on re-chucking and re-turning roughed out bowls, working with natural edges, different ways to use scroll chucks and jam chucks and turning bowls between centres.

I was working out of a mates shop in Fyshwick in ‘84 and he was mates with Richard.
A real gent, happy to share and help anyone.
You guys have a real guru there.
H

Bludy hell Neil, you must be in the horrors, up at 12:54 am.

Jim

For us still "developing" it would be nice to have a list of regular youtube broadcasters who have nice technique. Anyone wanna share?

Originally Posted by brainstrust

For us still "developing" it would be nice to have a list of regular youtube broadcasters who have nice technique. Anyone wanna share?

Forget the Youtube cowboys, stick with videos from proven demonstrators such as Glen Lucas, Stuart Batty, the late Alan Batty for technique.

Originally Posted by powderpost

Bludy hell Neil, you must be in the horrors, up at 12:54 am.Jim

Hahaha....

Nup was waiting on urgent/important reply to email from Canada re Dangerous Goods 24 hr Emergency Phone contact. Unfortunately have to do a lot of business overnight if I need to contact the USA, Canada and sometimes Europe even later in the night/morning. Got what I needed at 01:47 am, responded and went to bed around 02:10 am then up again at 06:00 am for another email that now means we can get our order off to Canada tomorrow/today Monday.

These late night contacts have been going on since last Wednesday trying to get what I needed done. Unfortunately it's not always easy or convenient dealing with overseas orders when you need important stuff done at their end in a hurry and everyone who has the authority is off on holidays. Still waiting on more info but at least we can now move a pallet of product out Monday which has been sitting on the factory floor for a couple of weeks.
Means we can also get paid this week.

Cheers

While I agree with a lot of the comments expressed here, I am also dismayed by some.
I struggle with turning. My skill is slowly getting better by asking for feedback and help with how to use the tools and finishes etc.
However a lot of people give their opinions without any basis of knowledge or experience.
Form function design finish all play into the finished article.
Too many people are biased by one particular turner, material, finish, style.
Competitions judged by non-turners are not productive to anyone.
Finding people to give honest unbiased experrienced critiques is important, but hard to find those people sometimes.
Lyle

Originally Posted by Oldmeadow

Well said!

I'm a youngish guy and am becoming increasingly aware of haphazardry on YouTube. I watch it a lot for ideas and inspiration however I am fortunately learning enough now to stop watching a few minutes into many videos. Even some professionals have some interesting (sometimes disturbing) quirks in their techniques that could easily lead to disaster.

At the start of this year I had a relatively minor but still painful freak accident in which a thick and heavy piece of oak that was learning 'securely' against a shelf was nicked by the bottom of a bag that I had grabbed from a shelf above it. It proceeded to fall between my legs after I had turned around and knocked the nail off my big toe. Thankfully there is no permanent damage however it was yet again another lesson of the value of being as careful and thoughtful as possible. I have since worn steel caps boots almost everywhere. And to think that I used to do some woodwork in thongs! (flip flops for any Americans!!)

I try and search for safety tips regularly to enhance my knowledge and actually listen to the tips of the 'oldies' at the club.

I feel sad for the loss of hands-on tool knowledge that seems to be happening with so many cabinet and grinding shops etc closing down.

store timber horizontally, it can’t fall, and it stays straight.