Thread: Opinion on a lathe

Originally Posted by Sturdee

. The outrigger tool rest won't break but needs support underneath to the floor to stop vibration.

+1

Originally Posted by DonIncognito

Fair call. I did some further reading, and it looks like you are either correct, or part of a wide wide collective that is wrong, so im happy to trust group judgement here.


There have been two further developments. I was rummaging through my parents garage and managed to walk away with a set of Sorby turning tools that would need some restoration, but look perfectly sound, just a bit rusty. I actually picked up a bunch of old stuff that I might do a post on later, but the sorbys are the pertinent items. I also found this webpage which has enough rust removal tips that one of em must work.

Lathe - Rust Removal/Prevention

I think im leaning towards grabbing it, and fixing it up, and learning as I go.

It was mentioned the tail stock was seized. The diesel will free up the part. It won't remove rust.

The rust remover is for that.

E

Ok, I went ahead and got the mc1100. Got it home and life happened, and haven't had a chance to play with it yet, so im working on fixing up the tail stock and the set of Sorby chisels I dragged out of my dads garage. I went and grabbed the tru grind jig, and im heading along to the show this weekend, hoping to grab a grinder.

On the tail stock, from my limited knowledge, it looks like the spindle is seized. I can get 3/4 of a revolution of the hand wheel before it stops. I have had it soaking in diesel overnight, and it hasnt made much of a difference yet. Would some light percussive maintenance with a rubber mallet help or hinder?

Heat, if you can. If you have one, start lightly with a paint stripper blower thing (like a hair dryer on steroids) with a light percussive maintenance.

Next step would be to use a torch. I have a cheap one from bunnings that is essentially a nozzle with a small butane bottle. It's marvellous. A little heat from that will allow the two different metals to expand at different rates. Don't worry about the diesel, you can't set it on fire, but you'll want to do it on your BBQ or similar (the stink!)

Next thing is that you mentioned the handle turned some way before stopping. Perhaps the winding mechanism itself is seized? I mean, most mechanisms are pretty basic, in that the "tensioner" simply squeezes the iron tube together (over a slit). Perhaps when the tightener is unwound it's not "ungripping" the inside. My drill press uses such barbarity (and it's a good Total Tools one). On older gear I put a biiiig screwdriver in the slit and twist it a touch with some vice grips. If you're Into hitting, I suppose you could wonk it with a cold chisel...as long as you don't strike the internal piston...it's usually chromed and dinks will affect its traversal when it's freed.

I have a mate who is a repair mechanic and I discussed this thread with him and he laughed.... His answer: heat, wd40 and a hammer. Still stuck? More heat, more WD, bigger hammer.

He, apparently knows what he's doing! He pulls brakes, clutches and other rusted up horrors all day, every day.

this may sound stupid but just in case ..... make sure you have loosened the lock nut / screw too.

Originally Posted by Evanism

Don't worry about the diesel, you can't set it on fire, but you'll want to do it on your BBQ or similar (the stink!)

Can I quote you next time I use the kitchen sink ..... please

DaveTTC, I was going to add that bit of sarcasm! But I thought any mung-bean that does this kind of thing in the house is definitely beyond hope!

Originally Posted by Evanism

DaveTTC, I was going to add that bit of sarcasm! But I thought any mung-bean that does this kind of thing in the house is definitely beyond hope!

my wife reckons I'm beyond hope

Originally Posted by Evanism

Heat, if you can. If you have one, start lightly with a paint stripper blower thing (like a hair dryer on steroids) with a light percussive maintenance.

Next step would be to use a torch. I have a cheap one from bunnings that is essentially a nozzle with a small butane bottle. It's marvellous. A little heat from that will allow the two different metals to expand at different rates. Don't worry about the diesel, you can't set it on fire, but you'll want to do it on your BBQ or similar (the stink!)

Next thing is that you mentioned the handle turned some way before stopping. Perhaps the winding mechanism itself is seized? I mean, most mechanisms are pretty basic, in that the "tensioner" simply squeezes the iron tube together (over a slit). Perhaps when the tightener is unwound it's not "ungripping" the inside. My drill press uses such barbarity (and it's a good Total Tools one). On older gear I put a biiiig screwdriver in the slit and twist it a touch with some vice grips. If you're Into hitting, I suppose you could wonk it with a cold chisel...as long as you don't strike the internal piston...it's usually chromed and dinks will affect its traversal when it's freed.

I have a mate who is a repair mechanic and I discussed this thread with him and he laughed.... His answer: heat, wd40 and a hammer. Still stuck? More heat, more WD, bigger hammer.

He, apparently knows what he's doing! He pulls brakes, clutches and other rusted up horrors all day, every day.

Cheers. Will have a crack at that tomorrow.

Is there any danger in leaving the tailstock soaking in diesel long term? Im heading away for a week, should I take it out and dry it before I go?

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

this may sound stupid but just in case ..... make sure you have loosened the lock nut / screw too.

Nope, doesnt sound stupid, but I learnt a while ago that you check all the basic things first, because of the amount of times something isnt working because a cable is loose, or a switch is in the wrong position.I took off both the locking nut and the actual wheel while its soaking though.

soaking should be fine

Damn life getting in the way of my new toys. In the middle of moving and simply havent had time to knuckle down and fix this yet. I soaked it in diesel for a week, gave it days worth of electrolysis and then attacked it with a heat gun and rubber mallet. There was time between each of these treatments.

From what I can tell, there is two hollow tubes inside the tail stock. The wheel grabs one end, and whatever chuck you are using goes in the other. The one grabbed by the wheel moves, but the front one doesnt. First question, should those two pipes be one? You can sort of see the gap in the pic. And I did remove the locking nut there as well.
IMAG1113.jpg

Its possible I had a bad connection with the electrolysis, because there really wasnt the coating of scum I found with the first test job I did. I suppose it comes down to whether or not that tube should be in one piece or two.

Don,

Below is a diagram of a typical tail stock. Depending on the construction, the spindle is threaded directly into the tail stock body, or sometimes the tail stock is bored out and the spindle is threaded into a tube which is slid into the tail stock and fixed with a set screw or sometimes pressed in.

In some the spindle thread comes out of the back and the spindle rotates, in others the spindle has a left hand thread inside the spindle, and the threaded shaft on the hand wheel is held by a pin or circlip so the spindle moves in and out and is kept from turning by a groove with a pin in it.

The live center has a taper which fits into a female taper in the spindle. To get that out you slide a steel rod just barely smaller than the hole through the spindle and give it a sharp whack with a steel hammer. If it is rusted in, applying penetrating oil to the interface of the red and blue on the diagram, and down the inside of the spindle which is propped on the right side to let the oil get to the inside of the live center. If soaking and 2 - 3 whacks does not get it out, more soaking and heat on the outside of the spindle with a heat gun or carefully with a propane torch. When the heat from the torch makes the oil smoke, that is enough heat. You want a fast shock so an 8 -10 oz. hammer going fast is better than a bigger one.

To get the spindle to go in and out; put on the hand wheel and fix tightly, look in the hole from where you removed the locking screw and rotate the spindle until you see a hole or slot appear, hold the spindle in that position and run the locking screw in until it is snug. Back out the locking screw 1/2 turn, turn the hand wheel back and forth to see if the spindle moves in or out.

If your get any movement, keep rocking the hand wheel back and forth straining a little at each end, squirt penetrating oil around every meeting surface, remove the locking screw and squirt oil in there, put back and keep working it back and forth. If you can get any movement at all of the spindle coming in or out it will eventually come free with oil and movement.

Let us know how it goes.

Originally Posted by Paul39

To get the spindle to go in and out; put on the hand wheel and fix tightly, look in the hole from where you removed the locking screw and rotate the spindle

This is the bit I got up to. The spindle will not turn a full rotation. If I attach the handwheel to the spindle, I get movement from basically 12 till 9. 3/4s of a full circle. Then it will not budge. I have sat there for an hour or so working inox into it, to no effect.

turn the hand wheel back and forth to see if the spindle moves in or out.

There is no movement of the spindle in an out.

Let us know how it goes.

Cheers. Its still stuck, and there is no appreciative increase in movement.

I have amended your diagram. There is a break at the purple lines in the spindle, and the rear portion that attaches to the hand wheel has the 3/4s turn of movement. The front piece does not budge at all.
1-Tail Stock Diagram.jpg


Its starting to look like a replacement spindle will be needed.

Must admit to not fully reading all posts but is there any locating grub screw or such likes on the side of the tail stock .

Usually there is a groove along the side of the quill which has a grub screw or locking handle in to stop the quill rotating.
Cant see anything from the sides of the tailstock in your pictures but usually they are on the other side.

Don,

If you can't get the spindle to move in the tail stock you will have to buy the whole TS.

If you soaked the TS in oily stuff before trying electrolysis, it is not likely the E. solution got where it needed to by as the narrow space was occupied by oily stuff.

At this point you don't have much to loose, so lets try a few more things.

First get the live center out. It is most likely a taper so any movement will bring it out. Get a steel rod that fits as closely as possible in the bore on the hand wheel side. I have a variety from dead computer printers and copy machines. They can be bought at building supply places or places that sell engineers supplies.

If they sell this in AU get a can:

Blaster Chemical/11 oz. penetrating catalyst (16-PB) | Penetrating Oil | AutoZone.com

Liberally apply around all cracks between the various parts of your tail stock, and down the bore. Put the rod in the bore at the hand wheel end and with an 8 - 10 oz. hammer, tap, tap, tap. More juice, tap, tap, tap. Repeat between sips while you have a cuppa or a brew. Juice up and let set overnight. The light tapping opens up fissures in the rust between the stuck parts and lets the juice get in. Once a bit of lubrication gets in it will almost always come apart.

The next day put the tail stock on the bench and put a cardboard box with the open end facing the live center. Put the rod in from the hand wheel end right up to the end of the live center, and with a bigger hammer 16 - 32 oz. accurately hit the rod as hard as you can. The live center should come out like a bullet. If not, repeat up to 5 times with a solid hit.

If it doesn't come out repeat the soaking, tapping, overnight, then try again.

I think from what I have read, and your amendment to my drawing, that you have a spindle that slides in and out and is threaded on the inside with the hand wheel side threaded on the outside to push or pull the spindle.

All the juicing up, tapping, and bashing will likely free up everything in the tails stock. If it does not, using a brass hammer or an 18 inch stick of hard Aussie timber about as big as the butt end of a pool cue, apply juice to and beat the daylights out of both ends of the TS spindle, once you get the live center out. Repeat with more juice several times and let set overnight.

Put the hand wheel on and secure firmly. If the set screw is not bearing on a flat of the shaft or in a drilled depression, it would help to file a flat or better drill a slight depression for the set screw to dig into. Turn the hand wheel in one direction and mark on the wheel and on the TS body where it stops. Turn the other direction and mark. Apply juice and turn to the extremes and see if you can force the spindle a few degrees past the mark, alternate and keep forcing back and forth. If you can get it to move 10 degrees past the mark on each side it will come loose. Keep adding juice. If you see rusty juice coming out you are winning.

Below left is my $850 Woodfast just after I got it home and put back together. (Two trips in a Kia Pride - Ford Festiva in the US.) The left hand wheel, face plate, and live center were all rusted in place. I used the above procedures to get everything apart, then polished all the bare metal with light oil and 400 grit paper.

In middle is a Woodfast tail stock. The spindle goes in and out and is locked by the lever on top. The hand wheel is on a threaded hollow rod that runs inside the threaded spindle. There is a groove in the shaft and a C shaped piece fits into the groove to keep it from winding in and out. You can see the top of the piece of metal on the top right of the TS.

On right is my 1995 20 inch swing, short bed, DC variable speed, Woodfast in place. Wonderful machine.