Thread: enough practice for now

PS lots of practise helps too.

Originally Posted by KenW

Eliza, you need to try and make your finials a lot thinner, and the decorations need to be a lot crisper.
This box is just about all finial, should give you an idea what I am talking about.

Ken, you've only told Eliza half the story. The hard part (from what I can gather) is for mere mortals to do the ten degrees of separation (without the piece separating! )

If you get that far, then and only then can you start on the box and finials.

And, BTW, your base seems indistinct. Or is it just the photo? I just can't see that little step on the base that makes your bases work so well.

And Eliza, don't feel threatened by Ken W. in any way. He still splits 20cm of firewood by hand.....

What's the 10 deg of seperation?

I have some harder wood, but I've been using huon and red cedar. I'll try the harder woods tomorrow see if that helps with the lumps and bumps!

Originally Posted by

Learn to use a detail gouge or a small skew. Most beading tools have to be very very very sharp and a gentle touch to work successfully.

Hard dense timber helps too.

Eliza, in my limited experience, very few people can claim to have mastered the skew for rolling beads. is one.... and I am not at all happy about it. I humbly suggest that you get a 6mm gouge and start from there.... Less nasty catches.

Originally Posted by ElizaLeahy

What's the 10 deg of seperation?

Ken will tell you the full story, but the idea started I think from two sources - a box that Hans Weissflog made with the box piercing into a round cube. Ken decided to complicate it further to make the box sit within ONE piece of wood. Originally, the split was at 15 degrees, but a club in SA wanted the number TEN for their 10th anniversary. So the 15 degrees became 10. Again, this is a very anal thing. The jigs to design the separation are exacting.

And I am yet to hear of anyone that has got past square one.....

Perhaps a little competion between us Elizy for the Box challenge?

Originally Posted by jefferson

Eliza, in my limited experience, very few people can claim to have mastered the skew for rolling beads. is one.... and I am not at all happy about it. I humbly suggest that you get a 6mm gouge and start from there.... Less nasty catches.

errr, you are going to hate me... The skew is one I "mastered" (I mean, I use it) early on. I thought I had to, Skew, , everyone said that for the hair sticks that is what i should be using, so I use it. I use it "correctly" (I think) over the top of the work, in both dirrections (either hand) and also probably "incorrectly" almost as a scraper, especially around the points of the hair sticks. That is what I mostly use for the beads I do now, but I usually end up with them rounder on one side then the other. And I never catch with the skew - so I must be doing something wrong!!! I catch all the time with a scraper on the inside of bowls (even today, after all the advice I was given!) but never with the skew.

Originally Posted by jefferson

Ken will tell you the full story, but the idea started I think from two sources - a box that Hans Weissflog made with the box piercing into a round cube. Ken decided to complicate it further to make the box sit within ONE piece of wood. Originally, the split was at 15 degrees, but a club in SA wanted the number TEN for their 10th anniversary. So the 15 degrees became 10. Again, this is a very anal thing. The jigs to design the separation are exacting.

And I am yet to hear of anyone that has got past square one.....

Perhaps a little competion between us Elizy for the Box challenge?

I did not understand that explaination at all! Too many terms I have no idea what they mean. - box piercing round cube - split - 15 degrees - why you need a jig with it...

Sure! Be fun to have someone to go up against. But - you have had Ken helping you! I'm not sure that'll be fair. hmmmm

OK

Originally Posted by ElizaLeahy

Ken, one of the problems I have is neat beads. I need more practice with them - they aren't really "round". I bought a beading tool, but anytime I try to use it on something fine, I end up with the round bit broken.

Any suggestions, or is it just practice?

Eliza, a beading tool is a scraper, the wood you are using is too soft to scrape. You need much harder straight grain timber. Start with a piece about 6mm square, and then practice your finial turning
I use a skew to plane my finials to size, then do most of the details with a 6mm spindle gouge, with an extremely long side grind. Nothing wrong with using a skew as a scraper on small detail.
If you are not getting any catches when rolling beads with a skew, you are a very unusual novice.

Originally Posted by ElizaLeahy

What's the 10 deg of seperation?

I have some harder wood, but I've been using huon and red cedar. I'll try the harder woods tomorrow see if that helps with the lumps and bumps!

Jeff made the answer a lot harder than it should have been.
The box I posted to show you how to turn finials, is called ten degrees of seperation, the name came about as Jeff said.
The two rings are one piece of wood turned ten degrees of verticle and are 3mm thick. The box body is two pieces, the upper piece (the box) has a spigot that passes through ring junction onto a hole in the lower leg section, joining it all together.
I make a Vase version of this piece in an 1 3/4 hour demo.

Originally Posted by jefferson

Ken, you've only told Eliza half the story. The hard part (from what I can gather) is for mere mortals to do the ten degrees of separation (without the piece separating! )

If you get that far, then and only then can you start on the box and finials.

And, BTW, your base seems indistinct. Or is it just the photo? I just can't see that little step on the base that makes your bases work so well.

And Eliza, don't feel threatened by Ken W. in any way. He still splits 20cm of firewood by hand.....

Jeff, the base has the step.

I might try the box, leave the rings off. Would that be ok?

I was thinking it was one long piece. You are saying that the stand is seperate to the box?

I think he means that, because the two rings are actually one piece, the stand was made in two pieces and glued together at the point where it looks like it passes through where the rings connect.

Check out Cindy's finial box video here (under AAW - you have to scroll across), it gives you a good idea on how to support your work whilst cutting.

Good find, Neil

That's a great video! I've bookmarked it, I think I'll be watching it several times!

I like the really thin parting tool, and the pointy type detail gouge she uses. I'll put them on my "want" list (boy, it's long and getting longer!)

Now I'm watching the Mushroom box one. I think I'll make a mushroom for myself as a 6 months pressie

Originally Posted by ElizaLeahy

That's a great video! I've bookmarked it, I think I'll be watching it several times!

I like the really thin parting tool, and the pointy type detail gouge she uses. I'll put them on my "want" list (boy, it's long and getting longer!)

Now I'm watching the Mushroom box one. I think I'll make a mushroom for myself as a 6 months pressie

Cindy is a great turner and has a wonderful eye for shape, I have shared a lathe with her so got to see first hand. The Spindle gouge she uses is too large. Her finials are beautiful, but lack fine detail around beads and disks. The size of her tool prevents her doing finer detail. She had a close look at my tools at Turnfest, so her finials might change. Cindy turns finials without tailstock support, this also makes fine detail more difficult.