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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughie View Post
    I agree I had a look at the 'new' Chinese Record lathes at Hare n Forbes wasnt impressed much. Record also put out their own turning tools, again Chinese. I bought a pressed steel roughing gouge at the time and must admit the HSS steel in gouge seems quite good holds the edge ok.
    If I may ask, what was your take on the H&F house brand machines? On paper the WL 46A looks too good to be true for the price, and I tend to believe that if something seems too good to be true it probably is.... but you never know.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Capsicum View Post
    If I may ask, what was your take on the H&F house brand machines? On paper the WL 46A looks too good to be true for the price, and I tend to believe that if something seems too good to be true it probably is.... but you never know.
    Funnily enough, this morning I dropped into a friends place for a first visit since 2019, long time between drinks for obvious reasons. The subject was lathes and this lathe was under intense scrutiny by him as a possible purchase.

    It bears an uncanny resemblance to the Jet 1642 lathe, or at least the size and placement of various components makes one wonder if the base unit offered by H&F comes from a close relative.

    While the 1642 lathes (2 of them) at my wood turning club have provision for a bed extension and/or a drop bed extension, they are not, or were not available to Australian customers as far as I know. The Jet 1642 lathe was a very popular choice when it was available new in Australia, nothing wrong with them and going on my experience using them in my turning club I was seriously considering purchasing one but didn't have the money at the time.

    The H&F unit has as an option, a bowl turning attachment for a reasonable price.

    W387A - BTA-46 Bowl Turning Attachment | Hare & Forbes Machineryhouse

    The weakness for me of the Jet lathes, and the H&F lathe are the tool post holder and the tool post itself. There is nothing wrong with them, they are just ergonomically not quite there. In order of preference with lathes I have used and still use regularly, the Laguna Revo 24-36 tool post arrangement and the current 30mm diameter Vicmark lathes are the best and as rigid as anything. The Laguna lathe is the easiest to use as it has the longest steel handles with a rubberised exterior that is just smooth as to operate. The Vicmark lathes are next easiest to use.

    The Jet 1642 lathes have a very usable but not super user friendly clamping system, the same system is used on the H&F lathes and this week I was using a very similar H&F lathe at my Men's Shed and was reminded of just how short the handles/levers are.

    The Men's Shed lathe like the current H&F offering, does not have a spindle hand wheel over the motor. This to me is a frustrating omission and I would be looking at whether there is provision to add either a factory handle, or possibly turning a wooden hand wheel and attaching it to the spindle.

    I would suggest the H&F lathe is reasonable value and possibly a good buy if you are unable to pick up a similar specified lathe secondhand.

    Item number 6 in this picture is the spindle hand wheel I'm talking about.

    https://sawmillcreek.org/articles/6/jet1642_features.jpg


    Some food for thought.

    Mick.

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Capsicum View Post
    If I may ask, what was your take on the H&F house brand machines? On paper the WL 46A looks too good to be true for the price, and I tend to believe that if something seems too good to be true it probably is.... but you never know.
    I had one their early generic lathes and it was well designed just poorly made. But having said that I owned it for 5 years did a few mods and it was good little lathe and for the money it was hard to beat. The later ones are much more refined and look as good as other makes, never used one but looking at them they look good, swing is ok variable speed drive to boot and the price aint bad either, 1.5kw motor and a 1200mm bend which helps to keep the tailstock out of the way. If looking to buy a another lathe on a lower budget it would be good I reckon.
    I always think you should buy what you can afford as the cost of the lathe with an eye for the future because the price will superseded by all the accessories many times over in its life.
    Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working. — Pablo Picasso


  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post

    The other design feature I find puzzling is the narrow bed ways gap, the head stock footprint and locking mechanism. For such a vital component the locking arrangement appears under designed to me. I suspect that over time it will prove difficult to accurately maintain alignment of the head stock to the tail stock and also to lock and to maintain lock of the head stock in the rotated position. It will certainly require constant maintenance, attention in use, and will need to be monitored for security when turning larger bowl and platter blanks. Vibration can stress components significantly causing them to loosen or worse, fatigue to the point of failure. A failure of the locking mechanism would not be pretty!

    The exploded parts schematic in the online manual confirm my suspicions.The head stock locking shaft is a similar arrangement to a banjo locking shaft & there does not appear to be a locking index pin to positively maintain alignment in the conventional head stock position.

    Parts Lists And Diagrams - Record Power Coronet Series Original Instruction Manual [Page 31] | ManualsLib

    For the $$$ I would be seriously looking at a Vicmarc VL150 but it does not have the "claimed" turning capacity of the Record Envoy.
    For future reference it looks like there is a headstock alignment system of sorts - bearing "balls" that rest on springs in the locking bar that locate into depressions on the bottom of the headstock. You can see it from 4:50 in this video: Know-How Series: Coronet Envoy and Regent Clamp Bolt Replacement with Andrew Hall - YouTube. This video was made to show people how to replace a defective part, which you'll find lots of references to when researching this machine.

    For sure, not a solid locking mechanism. Seemingly just to let you know it's about in the right spot, and then relies on doing a kiss test like he shows at the end tightening the shaft right down.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Capsicum View Post
    Thanks everyone for the very insightful comments. Can't beat input from people who've been around the block and turned on various machines!

    It seems like the consensus is that it's a probably decent enough quality lathe for that segment of the market, from a brand with a proven track record (pun intended), but maybe let down with some design flaws such as the headstock locking mechanism, fragile (but pretty cool looking I must say) tail stock and thin bed/instability. That's a shame because presumably those things could have been dealt with in design phase without much of a price hike.

    I'm not crossing it off the list because even with those flaws it's a massive upgrade from what I have and an achievable price. If I make it to this time next year still turning and nothing better has come up second hand online or through contacts then I'd be pretty tempted.
    Second hand can be very good but it takes a bit of time if after something in particular, failing ask around your club as often there is something going there often as not, so put some feelers out where you are
    Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working. — Pablo Picasso


  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Capsicum View Post
    For future reference it looks like there is a headstock alignment system of sorts - bearing "balls" that rest on springs in the locking bar that locate into depressions on the bottom of the headstock. You can see it from 4:50 in this video: Know-How Series: Coronet Envoy and Regent Clamp Bolt Replacement with Andrew Hall - YouTube. This video was made to show people how to replace a defective part, which you'll find lots of references to when researching this machine.

    For sure, not a solid locking mechanism. Seemingly just to let you know it's about in the right spot, and then relies on doing a kiss test like he shows at the end tightening the shaft right down.
    I noted the parts #41 "Compressed Spring" & #42 "Steel Ball" in the schematic and could not see any purpose for them other than some form of registration system.

    So my original suspicions were correct - "A failure of the locking mechanism would not be pretty! The exploded parts schematic in the online manual confirm my suspicions.The head stock locking shaft is a similar arrangement to a banjo locking shaft & there does not appear to be a locking index pin to positively maintain alignment in the conventional head stock position."
    Mobyturns

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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Capsicum View Post

    For sure, not a solid locking mechanism. Seemingly just to let you know it's about in the right spot, and then relies on doing a kiss test like he shows at the end tightening the shaft right down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post

    So my original suspicions were correct - "A failure of the locking mechanism would not be pretty! The exploded parts schematic in the online manual confirm my suspicions.The head stock locking shaft is a similar arrangement to a banjo locking shaft & there does not appear to be a locking index pin to positively maintain alignment in the conventional head stock position."
    I may have missed something here, but from what I understand there are two components to the positioning/locking mechanism on any swivel head lathe.

    A means of quickly finding the 0° or 90° or 45° (or whatever °) position and a mechanism for securely clamping the headstock in the required position regardless of its orientation. I had a quick look at that last video that Silver Capsicum posted and the cam locking mechanism on that is the same as on my Woodfast C1000X swivel head and I have found that to be more than adequate. I'm not an apologist for Record, but the updated locking mechanism on theirs also looks to be quite adequate.

    As for the only orientation that is critical, ie 0° for the centres kiss, I would do the kiss procedure, lock the headstock down in that position and drill a hole through the flange skirt on the headstock into the bed of the lathe and drop a pin into that to hold it in the correct position while clamping down next time. A magnet somewhere on the headstock could hold the pin while not in use and countersinking the hole in the bed would help find the position again if the ball bearings mechanism doesn't provide sufficient registration.

    As I said earlier in the thread, it's not a lathe that I would consider for myself, but I wouldn't write if off for others on the swivel head mechanism alone.

    For example, I might consider it as another lathe at the Men's Shed or for one of my grandchildren, who are probably already eyeing off my lathes...
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  9. #23
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    NeilS, The lathe looks to be a reasonable lathe and Andrew Hall's video gives us a better appreciation of the engineering behind the locking mechanism. Perhaps I'm simply biased towards fixed head stock lathes.

    The points that I dislike about the cam lock mechanism is that the eccentric shafts do get bent, certainly on banjos with ham fisted turners "locking them down solid." On the Records it appears to be a 16 mm or thereabouts shaft and given the length it should prove difficult to bend, however I'm no fan of Chinese metallurgical quality control! The component that was replaced certainly appeared to be poorly constructed imho.

    Note the casting design of the inboard face of the head stock (6'22" in the video) where the end of the cam lock shaft locates (blind socket), and the fact that the shaft does not carry through the whole casting on the inboard end.

    Like all designs its a balance between strength, ease of use, and economics. Lets hope they got the balance right. My concerns are that they have not, and given the offset motor and the general design I suspect that we will be hearing of failures of this design (damaged castings about the shaft retaining set screw) as more lathes are in use and as they get significant hours on them especially with larger pieces.
    Mobyturns

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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post
    Perhaps I'm simply biased towards fixed head stock lathes.
    I've noticed......

    As you have also probably noticed... I rather like my swivel head!

    Anyway, we have given any members of the forum who are considering this lathe some things to think about.

    I will add it to our thread on larger lathes available here in Australia (with at least 2HP), which I have now done.

    Larger lathes currently available here in Australia
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



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