Thread: Record Coronet Envoy Lathe - any comments?

Looks the business but I think you will find now they are made in China. Interesting comment about the low speed, I would thought 250 was definitely slow enough, if it wont stay on the lathe at that speed maybe it shouldn't be on the lathe in the first place. I turn a lot lopsided and out of balance pieces some quite heavy 15-20kg+ and do so around 400rpm rarely do I have an issue. Ok you have to keep your wits about you and dont doing anything stupid.
Price wise $3500 would buy a fair amount of lathe both new and second hand. I dont know the model so cant say too much. I had a good look at the smaller record lathes ex china and wasnt terribly impressed with them.
Have look in the wood machinery for sale [market place] part of the forum as you may get a good deal there and I expect Jim at CWS will proffer some good advice.

Originally Posted by Guy28

Hi.
I'm looking to retire into a new shed and progress from my mini lathe to a Big Boys Lathe.
After doing some shopping around I've been eyeing off the Record Coronet
Envoy lathe.
M M Vic Sales and Service - M M Vic Sales and Service

It has most of what I'm looking for; variable speed, reasonable sized motor, looks to be solidly built (space to add some sand bags if needed), reasonable swing - 16 inches but can rotate for larger. Its not a particularly long bend but I don't turn long spindle work anyway - mainly bowls and vases. The relocatable controls are a nice touch.
Record has a good reputation for quality build. I've used a couple of their older ones at our club and never really had an issue (other than the #1 morse tapers!)
It sells for $3K. Its seems to be better (worth the extra) than many of the cheaper ($1-$2K) lathes without the expense of moving into a Vicmarc or the like (I wish).

I've had a look at what reviews I could find online and the only real negative comment that I've seen is that some feel that the minimum speed of 250RPM is a bit high if you are working with large off balance blanks.

I'd be interested if anyone has any comment or hearing from someone who has one. Or is there a model that I've missed? Looking up to $3,500.
Thanks in advance.
Guy

The Coronet is quite popular in Europe/UK, but the big issue for me would be the thread size (M33 x 3.5). Most of the lathes sold here are 30M x 3.5. You will get more compatibility with those if you are buying secondhand accessories, like chucks.

I would also find it a bit on the light side at 140kg.

I don't have an issue with the spindle thread size if you intend to purchase spindle mounted products from overseas; the rest of the world mainly uses the M33 x 3.5 spindle thread. In fact if you wish to purchase the biggest chuck from Vicmark, which is made in Australia, you can only get it in M33 x 3.5.

I would suggest it is a very nice lathe, I don't really know, but I used a couple of Record lathes in the immediate pre-covid era and they were very nice, but a bit light weight for heavier stuff. This one is slightly heavier and as you mention, room for sandbags or perhaps some storage area under the bed.

Give Dean a ring at M M Sales and see if he has something secondhand; he certainly gets secondhand stuff when upgrading places. I've seen stuff on the back of his truck a couple of times. Pre-Covid of course....

I would be tempted to try secondhand heavier stuff, usually quite good value for money.

Perhaps look elsewhere in Australia?

Woodworking Supplies S/E QLD - QWS Short Bed Vairable Speed Woodlathe

As for spindle speeds, I like any lathe of size to have the ability to run around 100 rpm for really out of balance wet logs which are going to end up as bowls. My own experience with a Nova lathe with a minimum speed of 178 rpm was just satisfactory when I was pushing it to the limit. My current lathe, which will see me out, starts at 50 rpm which is perfect.

Pay particular attention as to how whatever lathe you end up getting, turns it's maximum size bowl. Does it have an external rest, an extended rest, does it need a tripod to hold the tool rest?

Bed length could be an issue if you decide to get a bowl saver to core multiple bowls from blanks; anything with a short bed could be a very tight fit, especially if you have a thickish block of wood.

Anything with a three phase motor running on an inverter should be very sweet and really smooth in applying power. You are getting into the three phase territory at the top end of your budget; possibly a slight stretch of the budget could make a very big difference.

Mick.

Originally Posted by Optimark

I don't have an issue with the spindle thread size if you intend to purchase spindle mounted products from overseas; the rest of the world mainly uses the M33 x 3.5 spindle thread. In fact if you wish to purchase the biggest chuck from Vicmark, which is made in Australia, you can only get it in M33 x 3.5.

Mick.

Well I should have checked before hitting the submit button, apparently Vicmark now supply this chuck in two sizes, direct threads M33 x 3.5 and 1¼" x 8 TPI and also with an insert with the thread of your choosing.

Thank you to the people who PM'd me with more up to date information... greatly appreciated.

Mick.

Hi everyone, first post yay. I'm in WA. I started on a vintage Jet mini and currently turning on a rusty, clanky old reeves drive Sherwood. Both I got from a very generous family friend as he upgraded.

I've been obsessing over one of these for a while now but bugger all info/reviews on them. Seems to fit right in the sweet spot for price and specs for when this Sherwood shakes itself to pieces. I know everyone says "keep an eye out for a quality used lathe" but honestly I've been looking for months and seen nothing that would be an upgrade to what I have. I don't know where all these mythical old Woodfast machines are!

Below it you've got the "house brands" like Sherwood, Machinery House, Carbatec. Some look a lot like the Grizzly machines in the US, they have good looking specs but some mixed reviews:
https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood...variable-speed
16" x 24" Variable-Speed Wood Lathe at Grizzly.com

It may be unfair but quality and longevity of these machines is unknown to me without as much background/reputation as the name brands.

The Laguna 12/16 looks nice but pretty small and the optional extras are necessary... base $639 and outboard attachment to get comparable swing $339

It looks like I could get an Envoy shipped over for under $3500. As Guy28 says, decent specs all round.

The next one up I could see is the Woodfast WL520B. A bit bigger swing than the Envoy, slower minimum speed and same size motor. Could get it shipped for about $4k which is starting to get a bit much for something I only can really use on the weekend. Same goes for Nova Orion, big Lagunas, Vicmarcs and so on.

Anyway, bit of a long post to say I don't really have anything to add! Keen to hear any comments from members with more experience.

Originally Posted by Silver Capsicum

The next one up I could see is the Woodfast WL520B. A bit bigger swing than the Envoy, slower minimum speed and same size motor. Could get it shipped for about $4k which is starting to get a bit much for something I only can really use on the weekend. Same goes for Nova Orion, big Lagunas, Vicmarcs and so on.

I have that Woodfast (with the outboard turning rig), which has had a lot of use over the last 15yrs or so, and can say that it has been a good lathe for my purposes (mostly bowls and platters).

However, at your stage of life and given the limited time you have for woodturning, I understand that it is a substantial cost if purchasing new.

As you have found, advertised secondhand offerings are scarce, especially in the states with smaller populations like yours and mine. You have to be very patient and have some luck on your side.

But, purchasing secondhand through eBay and Gumtree does have other issues. The lathes often come without much knowledge of the condition of the lathe (estates, secondhand machinery places, etc).

Linking into regional woodturning clubs is more reliable in terms of available knowledge about a lathe that is being sold by a member who is doing an upgrade.


PS - welcome to the forum!

No experience with the Record Coronet, however there are a few design issues with lathes such as the Coronet that I do not believe are "good design" and come about mainly due to the economies gained in the manufacturing cycle, and of course to add the "rotating & sliding head stock" feature..

Having the motor mounted at almost the spindle height, and offset to the rear, considerably raises the center of mass of the lathe making it less stable than it could be. If you are like most turners and space is at a premium, you may wish to be able to move it about with the aid of castors etc. If so the very high center of mass will make it more prone to toppling over.

Like all designs its a matter of weighing the pros & cons of the lathes features. Narrow down to the must have's, the desirable features, and the obvious detracting points like stability, service support, spare parts availability etc. Simple things such as are the drive belt and head stock bearings readily available?

Do you require a rotating head stock? or is the ability to shift and move it about safely a prime consideration?

From the photo of the lathe in the posted link, the tailstock looks very fragile to me, but it could be just the photo.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Originally Posted by Old Croc

From the photo of the lathe in the posted link, the tailstock looks very fragile to me, but it could be just the photo.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Overall it appears to be a reasonable machine and certainly no worse when compared to the current range of generic clone offerings. It does have some weaknesses imho, but used within its capacity it should be a competent machine. I do see some weaknesses that may cause quite some frustration over time, and if the tail stock design proves fragile that may become a significant issue to source a replacement.

I also made that observation abut the tail stock casting design. The relatively small cross section at the junction of the support and quill barrel plus the geometry of the support seem "fragile" to me. Considerable axial forces can be placed on tail stocks by heavy handed users.

The other design feature I find puzzling is the narrow bed ways gap, the head stock footprint and locking mechanism. For such a vital component the locking arrangement appears under designed to me. I suspect that over time it will prove difficult to accurately maintain alignment of the head stock to the tail stock and also to lock and to maintain lock of the head stock in the rotated position. It will certainly require constant maintenance, attention in use, and will need to be monitored for security when turning larger bowl and platter blanks. Vibration can stress components significantly causing them to loosen or worse, fatigue to the point of failure. A failure of the locking mechanism would not be pretty!

The exploded parts schematic in the online manual confirm my suspicions.The head stock locking shaft is a similar arrangement to a banjo locking shaft & there does not appear to be a locking index pin to positively maintain alignment in the conventional head stock position.

Parts Lists And Diagrams - Record Power Coronet Series Original Instruction Manual [Page 31] | ManualsLib

For the $$$ I would be seriously looking at a Vicmarc VL150 but it does not have the "claimed" turning capacity of the Record Envoy.

If you haven't already seen it and still considering the Envoy, the following video has a rundown by a Canadian. Of course, ignore the talk about voltages that don't apply here.

It would not suit me in a number of ways, but after watching the video I was surprised how solid and well made it looked for a lathe in that category.

I particularly liked the look of the outrigger option....

Record Power Coronet Envoy Lathe vs Coronet Herald , A Review of Each Lathes Features EthAnswers - YouTube

Thanks for that link Neil, just reinforced my opinion that the tailstock looks fragile. I remember when the early-ish Woodfasts had problems with the tailstock breaking.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Saw one of these at the last Melbourne wood show and was very underwhelmed by what I saw.
As others have indicated the M33 thread is not the norm here M30x3.5 is more the standard as you can get aftermarket accessories easily.
Was not impressed by the overall finish, just like someone had taken it out of a sand cast and said there you go, there was lots of rough edges everywhere.
The tailstock felt flimsy to use and as indicated even with the spread of the legs the top was a bit teetery when pushed against, especially if you lean on the lathe to do inside a bowl.
Its almost like record had a price point and did not want to go over it in any way to make a better product. A bit like Nova when they had their N3000 lathes with the narrow bed a lot found they were too light and had to add sand bags just to keep the vibration and movement down. Just not enough mass for a bowl turning lathe. Would be ok for spindles.
Just my thoughts , not what I would be looking at for a serious purchase.

Thanks everyone for the very insightful comments. Can't beat input from people who've been around the block and turned on various machines!

It seems like the consensus is that it's a probably decent enough quality lathe for that segment of the market, from a brand with a proven track record (pun intended), but maybe let down with some design flaws such as the headstock locking mechanism, fragile (but pretty cool looking I must say) tail stock and thin bed/instability. That's a shame because presumably those things could have been dealt with in design phase without much of a price hike.

I'm not crossing it off the list because even with those flaws it's a massive upgrade from what I have and an achievable price. If I make it to this time next year still turning and nothing better has come up second hand online or through contacts then I'd be pretty tempted.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

No experience with the Record Coronet, however there are a few design issues with lathes such as the Coronet that I do not believe are "good design" and come about mainly due to the economies gained in the manufacturing cycle, and of course to add the "rotating & sliding head stock" feature..

Having the motor mounted at almost the spindle height, and offset to the rear, considerably raises the center of mass of the lathe making it less stable than it could be. If you are like most turners and space is at a premium, you may wish to be able to move it about with the aid of castors etc. If so the very high center of mass will make it more prone to toppling over.

Like all designs its a matter of weighing the pros & cons of the lathes features. Narrow down to the must have's, the desirable features, and the obvious detracting points like stability, service support, spare parts availability etc. Simple things such as are the drive belt and head stock bearings readily available?

Do you require a rotating head stock? or is the ability to shift and move it about safely a prime consideration?

I agree I had a look at the 'new' Chinese Record lathes at Hare n Forbes wasnt impressed much. Record also put out their own turning tools, again Chinese. I bought a pressed steel roughing gouge at the time and must admit the HSS steel in gouge seems quite good holds the edge ok.