Thread: Round windows, work in progress.

Now where were we?
Yes! the last segment of the first row.
Once the last segment has been disc sanded to correspond with the first one you can mark the final cut from the underside.Then its bandsawn and sanded for a mighty tight fit.
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You might have noticed the slithers of newspaper that have been placed under the segment glue joints. These are to stop the frame from sticking to the face plate with excess glue. Anyway we now have the first row of segments built up.
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The second row happens next and it goes pretty well like the first except these ones are screwed down as well. The screws on the first row are put in further towards the outside diameter as the rebate for the glass needs to be turned on the inside diameter and you dont want to come across the screws when turning.
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When you see glue squished out of the whole joint line when you put em in you know it will make for a good joint.
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Then the 3rd row.
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And lastly the 4th row.
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Because the 4th and final row will be visible on the inside of the room when finished the screw holes are countersunk with a 10mm dowell drill so that they can be plugged later on. All the previous screw holes were roughly countersunk with a hand countersink gouge as they wont be seen.
So here it is, window number one built up. Ready to turn after glue dries. One more to build up first beforehand.
If anyone is still awake? I have used Kliebeit 303 glue which is a highly water resistant glue. You could of course use epoxy but it stinks and is not nice to use.
Will post the turning process after I build up the next one.......It might be a week or two as I have impatient clients wanting other jobs urgently which is always nice.
To finish, this build up process took a pretty casual day, if you were hard pressed and got up at a "Sparrows" you could probably build both windows up in a day but hey, this is Tasmania!

A very thorough WIP you have going here Bodger!!!

I await the final product with interest.

wow very interesting! what sort of lathe will you be turning it on? I'm not a fan of the dust off W.R.C with out fail my nose will run! as you mentioned great for out doors! can't wait to see the end result!

Hi Bodger

I appreciate that you have access to a very large faceplate -- but why use a lathe when a router and template would seem a much quicker and simpler option

thanks for this post keep them coming

Is this Curved Molding calculator of any use in working out possible segment sizes?

http://www.blocklayer.com/Curved-Molding.aspx

If it is, could it be modified to better suit circular window frames?

:

Built up the second window frame today, in just under 4 hours. It went a bit quicker as face plate had been trued,work station was all in place and everything primed to go.
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Just to back peddle for a bit, I meant to have the following shot included in previous post regarding the last segment in each row. The pinchdogs by design pull one bit of timber to another so when you get to the last segment of each row notice how they are angled inwards. This pulls the final segment towards the inside of the frame, preventing a sort of "tug o war" between the two dogs. I have used a couple of smaller ones here...."pinchpuppies".
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Now on to the questions...
Chuck1
The lathe is one that had been specially made inhouse at the Montpellier foundry and engineering works in Hobart for their pattern shop. I bought it at auction when the place closed down somewhere around 1988 ish.
It's a cracking lathe with heavy duty bearings. Thread for faceplates is 1 1/2 inch which is bigger than the wadkin pattern lathes. You can turn up to 800mm dia on the inside and outboard up to 2.2 metres dia. My largest faceplate for outside work is 1200mm dia but if needed it would not be a problem to make a bigger one. Longest spindle length is close to 2.2 metres (wadkin wins in that respect). I am not convinced with the tailstock design on this one but it has never let me down.
It's got 8 speeds, the slowest is really slow. I'm only guessing here but I reckon somewhere between 100-200rpm. Which makes it ideal for larger faceplate work.
I think it's a nice touch that its got an on off switch on both ends of the lathe as well.
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Also shows great insight in construction when you look at the pulleys, there are spare belts mounted inside the bearings so if a belt lets go you dont have to disassemble everything to change it.....that is pretty cool.
Ian, I find your question a little perplexing regarding a router and template being a much quicker and simpler solution.
In a nutshell, I guess it comes down to training.
I served my patternmaking apprenticeship for a company in Sydney that made mining equipment. They made seriously big stuff. They had a hydraulically powered faceplate lathe that was capable of turning enormous patterns (makes mine seem like a miniature). I got my fair share of work on it and saw lots of other things turned by other fellow workers on it. All made pretty well to the tee by the method I have described previously. Also at Sydney technical college(probably now TAFE), that's the way we were taught to make such things, was never urged to use a router and template at work or tech. Several years later when studying "furniture design" at the Uni of Tasmania one of the lecturers bought in a round window he had made with a router. He had made it from plywood and then veneered the visible surfaces. It looked pretty good and was of a similar design to the one I have been posting about(reasonably square in section). It must have had some sort of rebate in it for the glass to fit into, can't remember clearly. When he was describing the lengths he had gone to make it,jigs,templates,etc my thoughts were struth! wouldn't it be easier to turn the thing?
Perhaps one of the advantages of using the segmented and turned method is that it has a more flexible adaptation to the particular design of the desired window, for example when you look at a window like these two img039.jpg
Or perhaps this oneimg040.jpg
Or to a slightly lesser extent this one img041.jpg where the section of the window is also close to round,well, I invite you to make one similar and much quicker with your router and to get an A1 finish that sanding on a lathe will give.
I did not state that making one this way was the only or best way to go about it. Am happy to be convinced otherwise.
If you asked a blacksmith to make you one they would surely use metal. A fibreglasser would probably use fibreglass. That's what they have been trained in.
Don't mean to sound arrogant here Ian, just an honest answer to your question.
Cheers

Wow, this is a different thread to the usual offerings, keep going, very interested and thanks
Sincerely
Willy

This is wonderful stuff, a nice change to bowls, bowls and more bowls.

I'm watching with great interest... as a mate of mine is about to start on a roundel window (a bullseye in a brick-wall) and odds are good I'll be asked to make the frame, so your posts have turned up in a very timely manner for me.

I love the idea of using pinch-dogs like that. Much quicker & simpler than holding with wooden blocks! Now I'll have to try to source some...

The only part I'm not sure about is the beading to retain the glass. Do you make your own, bend straight lengths or possibly turn a solid "donut" to slip in instead?

(I'm thinking that the outside architrave could double as beading to simplify things, depending on how deeply the glass is recessed. )

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

This is wonderful stuff, a nice change to bowls, bowls and more bowls.

I'm watching with great interest... as a mate of mine is about to start on a roundel window (a bullseye in a brick-wall) and odds are good I'll be asked to make the frame, so your posts have turned up in a very timely manner for me.

I love the idea of using pinch-dogs like that. Much quicker & simpler than holding with wooden blocks! Now I'll have to try to source some...

The only part I'm not sure about is the beading to retain the glass. Do you make your own, bend straight lengths or possibly turn a solid "donut" to slip in instead?

(I'm thinking that the outside architrave could double as beading to simplify things, depending on how deeply the glass is recessed. )

Hi Skewdamn
Nice to hear the thread comes at a useful time.
There are 2 joinery's here in Hobart who I make the bulk of these windows for, both specialise in cedar windows.
The joinery who gives me the most work don't ask for any beading, the other one usually does......so I ether make them up some mini segments (thin ones) that they must tack on to the outside of the glass or I at least give them a template so they can cut their own to the right size.
The joinery who does not ask for any simply uses silicone.
I have already put one smaller round window (that I had kicking about) in the room where the 2 in this thread are also going to go. I used silicone to stick the glass to the internal window frame rebate and when that had dried used what they call in the pattern trade a "fillet rubber" and a bit of masking tape to apply a neat 1/4 radius of silicone to the outside of the glass. It's worked a treat.
As the 2 windows in this thread are going into the same room I would be happy to show the installation as well as the making. There should not be any need for external or internal architraves.
Cheers

Artful,

Thanks for the tutorial on round windows. I'm most impressed with your lathe. It appears to be cut out of steel plate then welded together and machined. Any idea of the weight?

A interesting alternative method to the traditional procedure of window construction

As other have said, great post AB!

Very instructive WIP set showing a nice combination of disciplines, including band-saw work, joinery, segmenting and of course turning. Most impressive. Gives me some ideas of my own as I have stacks of Western Red in various sizes all reclaimed - much of it large section-sizes from big door jambs etc. Just goes to show - never throw anything out.

Looks like something I could do on the Hegner VB36.... if I ever get it out it's packing crate.

Wayne

Originally Posted by Paul39

Artful,

Thanks for the tutorial on round windows. I'm most impressed with your lathe. It appears to be cut out of steel plate then welded together and machined. Any idea of the weight?

Hi Paul. The lathe is indeed fabricated out of steel, not cast.
Had a bit of a closer look today armed with a rule and I can tell you that the bed of the lathe is made from right angle steel that in section measures 150mm x150mm x 15mm thick. The bed has not been machined, as I guess the steel was true enough in the first place.
As for the weight? that's a tough one....
I had it delivered on a truck that had a crane on it. The truck driver managed to just get it in the workshop and push it in a bit with the crane. Its stayed in the same spot ever since, apart from jacking it up a bit to get the bed level to compensate for the un-level concrete slab. No way I could lift one end of it or move it at all by myself.
Also I don't have a set of scales that could weigh it. I do have however a set of wool bale scales, so for interest sakes weighed the tail stock today. It weighed 112 lbs or 51 kilos.

Hi hardenfast
Quote/ "Gives me some ideas of my own as I have stacks of Western Red in various sizes all reclaimed - much of it large section-sizes from big door jambs etc. Just goes to show - never throw anything out."

Yeah, its a bit of a bonus that you can use off cuts from other jobs to make these things, for this window the offcuts only need to be about 400mm long. Reckon there would be window manufacturers out there who would sling bits that length into the dumpster without a seconds thought.