Thread: My Search for the Perfect Sharpening System

If you are looking for a jig have a look at this Woodcut Tools Ltd > Tool Sharpening

very easy to set up and use about as simple as it gets.

Take your Chinese grinder back to the seller and tell them the magic smoke escaped and you want your money back.

I have a no name Taiwanese 8 inch grinder I bought used which has worked daily for 5 years.

I have the Oneway Wolverine system for my chisels with a 120 grit Alox wheel on both sides. One side has the flat rest for scrapers and the other the holder for the bowl gouge jig.

I have a Tormek 7 which I bought used in a weak moment. It puts a razor sharp edge on everything. After sharpening a friends plane irons, some chisels, and a bowl gouge on which I sliced myself, it sits upstairs.

I sharpen my skews on a piece of sandpaper on the lathe bed or on a flat $15.00 Chinese diamond plate. One works as good as the other on high speed steel.

Starting from scratch, I would buy a medium priced 1400ish rpm 8 inch grinder with a CBN or diamond wheel. Set it up with the Tormek bar and jigs for a bowl gouge and the flat rest.

The spindle gouges can be sharpened by resting on the flat rest more or less free hand.

Do a search on this forum using , sharpening, Tormek, diamond wheel, CBN wheel, Sorby system, etc. There have been raging discussions about sharpening. The best thing is to join a mens shed and try the various methods yourself.

Not all of us like the same thing. There are many paths to the same place. If someone proclaims there is ONLY ONE PROPER WAY to sharpening, thank them for their instruction and run.

The object of sharpening is to remove material from rotating timber, preferably leaving a smooth surface. Long, involved sharpening rituals to make the perfect edge last about 1.5 seconds when crammed into a piece of rock hard timber turning about 1400 rpm.

EDIT: Just re-read your post. You will like the Wolverine system.

Originally Posted by Colin62

Tormek
I got some pricing on the Tormek system, and was again quite close to being ready to place an order (in spite of the high price – I just got a decent bonus and it was burning a hole in my pocket). I asked a few guys I know who have Tormeks and it seems that many people buy them, and stop using them after a while – the time taken to remove material is a factor, and there seems to be a bit of a learning curve on using the jig system which some never quite mastered or just find frustrating. Also it became apparent that the T3 was probably just the first step, and that the T7 was needed, and that is even more expensive.

I have the T7. Yes, it's expensive, but if you can get past that, it is a very good system. It's not fast, I agree, but I am in no hurry. A production turner would probably say it was too slow. The jigs are easy to use and one of the selling points IMO. The instruction info is laid on so thick Blind Freddy could follow it. Just take the time to go through the literature and the videos. For me, a mug turner that couldn't freehand to save myself, the T7 has given me the sharpest chisels I have ever had.

Colin, I am an intermittent turner, i.e. do some today and then none for 4 months, and even though Powderpost taught me to freehand sharpen, its a skill I loose doing all the other things I do. So, I have several 8 inch grinders, A&A, GMF, JET and a very old Tormek with a Supergrind wheel. The 8 inch ones have a mix of grey, blue, white and pink wheels on them. I have set up the bar from the Tormek on the 8 inch, using the Tormek jigs to do a quick rough out to shape, then finish on the Tormek. What I love most, is when I am turning, and the tool dulls, its a quick rub on the Tormek, exact repeatability of the grind, and I dont see all my expensive HSS or Glasser's metal sparks hitting the ground, as the Tormek only takes thousandths off the tool.
Well thats my $00.20 worth,
rgds,
Crocy
P.S. most of the detractors of the Tormek try to totally shap or reshape tools on them, and this is a very slow process, so they get pi-sed and blame the machine.

Thanks for the replies.

China, the woodcut jig is one I didn't come across while looking,probably because most of the forums I looked through were based in the US or UK.

Paul, I am taking the smokeless grinder back as soon as I can get into town. The suppliers have offered to swap it for another one, but I don't think I trust that so I'll rather try a different brand, and hopefully will have a bit more luck with that. I haven't been able to find a 1400 rpm grinder at all, but apparently the CBN wheels work well enough on a 2850 rpm model.

Blackwoods and Old Croc - I decided against the Tormek mostly because I don't have the kind of money to take a chance on the system. I've heard from enough people who bought Tormek and either just don't use it or have sold it (at a loss). I may well have been perfectly happy with it, but it's just too much money to take that risk. I'm confident that I'll get repeatibility with the Wolverine jigs, and I have yet to see a post by someone who bought a CBN wheel and who was unhappy with his purchase.

On the cost side, with shipping, import duties and the bend-over-and-take-it-because-we've-got-your-parcel attitude of the courier companies, I'm probably in for about $700 or so anyway by the time I've got all the components together, so the route I'm going is not the cheapest solution.

Just to clarify - I'm not suggesting that I know more than anyone else out there, and I'm not in any way criticising the choices others have made nor the systems they are using - I'm just trying to find a system that works for me, in my particular circumstances. My reason for posting was to document the process I went through in case it may help others - who may well reach a different conclusion to what I did.

Cheers,

Colin

Have a look here Colin.


https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/my-...g-post-147077/

How sharp do you want your turning tools???

Turners have been producing great work long before the Torment (thanks Neil) was ever around and while I agree it will provide you with the sharpest of edges I still don't think most turners need tools as sharp as this very expensive rig gives you.

I have a Torment in my workshop as well as two diamond wheels a CBN and Al Ox. What do I use? The Al Ox!!

My recommendation: 8" 80 grit Al Ox wheel and the Woodcut Tru Grind. Most turners will get the results they are after with this set up.

I always reckon its horses for courses. If you are doing production bowl work in hard timbers give the Tormek a miss and go for a jig system like the Wolverine which is fast to setup and grind on a traditional 8" grinder with an Alox wheel. Finish cuts on bowls, have another gouge and use the Tormek. On the other hand if you do small and delicate the Tormek does an excellent job and produces a razor edge if you wish. Or you could have the best of both worlds and use the Tormek mount for your traditional bench grinder and use your wheel of preference and have the bonus of the Tormek jigs.

I use both, the bench grinder with Alox wheel and Tormek & Heligrind jigs for shaping gouges and for routine sharpening for roughing work, then the Tormek T7 & jigs & the Heligrind jigs on the Tormek for the finesse work. I love the profile the Heligrind produces for spindle gouges.

Thank you Colin for your detailed analysis which led to your decisions.

I don't think you will be disappointed with what you have decided.

A tip: I took both of my wheels (CBN and diamond) with me and test fitted them on the grinders that I was considering. Both had nominal 5/8" arbors, but I found the fit varied on grinders with nominal 5/8" spindles. With this type of wheel the fit has to be perfect as you can't true them up like you do an AlOx wheel. If the salespeople raise their eyebrows at your request to remove their standard wheels so you can test fit yours, just tell them that your wheel is worth more than their grinders, and if that doesn't work try charming them by telling them that you are the Prince searching for Cinderella...

If by trial you can get close but not perfect, you can make a shim of beer can stock by cutting with ordinary paper scissors. Wrap around the shaft so the ends almost butt. Add a second layer if needed.

Once the wheel is centered the washers will hold it in place.

Originally Posted by brendan stemp

What do I use? The Al Ox!!

My recommendation: 8" 80 grit Al Ox wheel and the Woodcut Tru Grind. Most turners will get the results they are after with this set up.

After trying different systems over many years, including a Tormek, I too use a 80 grit alox wheel and a Trugrind for the fingernail grind on the gouges.

Cheers

Tim

Just to update with some progress - I have now got the grinder that will last me the rest of my life.

After looking at many cheaply made grinders (some of which aren't sold all that cheaply), I decided to stop messing around and bought myself a slow speed Creusen. I dithered a bit because it's a 6" grinder, not and 8", as they don't do a 8" slow speed in the range that is imported here. It's a DS7500TS, and comes with two 150mm x 40mm wheels, which means that the 40mm wide CBN wheel will fit comfortably. I don't know what grits the wheels are, but they are certainly finer than the standard 40/60 that come with most grinders. The pamphlet that came with it suggested 60/100, but they look finer than that to my (inexperienced) eye.

It's chalk and cheese compared to the other grinders I've seen, and I'm very happy I decided to spend the extra and get it. (It cost me roughly the equivalent of $260). It's perfectly usable for what I need even with the stock wheels, and I'm in no rush to get the CBN wheel (I will still get it, but it's not urgent as the existing wheels are pretty good and I don't want to waste them). The Wolverine jigs work well too, I found I was able to repeat the grind I had put on my favourite bowl gouge quite easily without grinding away extra steel.

There are a few sharp chisels in my workshop now

Colin,

I think you will be pleased with your grinder and jigs in the long run.

If the old grinder to the right of your new one in the photo is still working, keep it for shaping mystery metal into lathe tools, sharpening your ax and hoe, grinding off bolt and rivet heads, etc.

Colin62,

Did you know that Vicmark sell an 8" slow grinder?
Sorry, I just realised where you are