Thread: Six months without a single sale!

Originally Posted by NeilS

Just realised that I have been there.... Jeez, how did you swing that gig, Ian!

Stayed with friends of the family in Banff and they took us for a drive to various 1988 Winter Olympics venues, including Canmore.

Speccy place to live!

Canmore was supposed to only be for three to four years for the kid to finish high school and also train for his sport, followed by a return to Australia.
Well, school took longer than planned and the kid has now started 1st year Uni in Calgary. Uni is mostly on-line so for all of us to continue staying in Canmore remains the option.

The way things are looking in Australia -- flights only available through the US, with severely limited seat numbers, no seats available unless you're prepared to pay 1st or business class air fares plus each of us would have to incur a $3k debt to the STATE government for the COMMONWEALTH's quarantine responsibilities. All up the cost for us to return could be as high as $60--70k.

At this stage we've extended our lease twice -- not much of a biggie as the home owners can't travel out of the UK -- but at a potential cost of $70 k we might have to stay here till the money runs out. Qantas is talking about July 2021 before direct overseas flights recommence from Vancouver.

Originally Posted by artful bodger

One of my favorite gallery owners said to me recently, "nothing we sell is essential" and it is true.

When I create, I try to remember these...

Andy-Warhol-Quotes-17-min-1200x1200.jpg Andy-Warhol-Quotes-34-min-1200x1200.jpg

Originally Posted by artful bodger

i have come to the realisation though that people are generally not interested in paying reasonable money for wooden bowls and that those days are over. I could sell nice big bowls 25 years ago much easier than I can now.

Perhaps a bit similar to what happened with pottery, which I was quite involved with in the 70s. Lots of small potteries were viable for awhile and then then pottery became less fashionable, the demand for it collapsed and all those small potteries disappeared.

Maybe turned wood is heading the same way.

Not a good prospect for anyone thinking of getting into it now as an occupation.

Originally Posted by artful bodger

One of my favorite gallery owners said to me recently, "nothing we sell is essential" and it is true.

That just about sums it up.

However, when the essentials are all met we humans invariably turn to the non-essential.

Perhaps after the CV recovery a renaissance is on its way for us artisans... Hmmm, dream on...

Originally Posted by ian

Canmore was supposed to only be for three to four years for the kid to finish high school and also train for his sport, followed by a return to Australia.
Well, school took longer than planned and the kid has now started 1st year Uni in Calgary. Uni is mostly on-line so for all of us to continue staying in Canmore remains the option.

The way things are looking in Australia -- flights only available through the US, with severely limited seat numbers, no seats available unless you're prepared to pay 1st or business class air fares plus each of us would have to incur a $3k debt to the STATE government for the COMMONWEALTH's quarantine responsibilities. All up the cost for us to return could be as high as $60--70k.

At this stage we've extended our lease twice -- not much of a biggie as the home owners can't travel out of the UK -- but at a potential cost of $70 k we might have to stay here till the money runs out. Qantas is talking about July 2021 before direct overseas flights recommence from Vancouver.

Tough!

But, on the positive side, of all the places to get 'stranded' I can think of few better, Ian.

Originally Posted by NeilS

on the positive side, of all the places to get 'stranded' I can think of few better, Ian.

agree wholeheartedly

Originally Posted by NeilS

Perhaps a bit similar to what happened with pottery, which I was quite involved with in the 70s. Lots of small potteries were viable for awhile and then then pottery became less fashionable, the demand for it collapsed and all those small potteries disappeared.

Maybe turned wood is heading the same way.

Not a good prospect for anyone thinking of getting into it now as an occupation.



That just about sums it up.

However, when the essentials are all met we humans invariably turn to the non-essential.

Perhaps after the CV recovery a renaissance is on its way for us artisans... Hmmm, dream on...

As it happens the gallery owner I was quoting regarding non essential stuff, just put in a big order for non essential items that will take at least a month to fill. No bowls in the order though.
In fact no turning at all. Other woodwork. I would not want to be relying on just turning to eat.

Sorry to hear Neil but I guess given the current situation with Covid not that surprising.

I don't sell to galleries as I would have problems keeping up with supplies for them. I do however, when time permits, take on private production turning and some artistic pieces based on requests. These come via the local club, my FB page and through various FB Groups, and of course returning customers. Interesting enough, there has been plenty of those to keep me busy in between work around the workshop renovations.
,
Hope things improve for you

Originally Posted by artful bodger

As it happens the gallery owner I was quoting regarding non essential stuff, just put in a big order for non essential items that will take at least a month to fill.

Good to hear, Brad.

Originally Posted by artful bodger

No bowls in the order though. In fact no turning at all. Other woodwork. I would not want to be relying on just turning to eat.

And, not so good. The prospects for anyone who is thinking of making turning more than a hobby don't look so promising, well at least for now.

Originally Posted by NeilS

Good to hear, Brad.



And, not so good. The prospects for anyone who is thinking of making turning more than a hobby don't look so promising, well at least for now.

I guess it depends on what sort of turning you are prepared to do for it to be more than a hobby.
As an example I was turning a range of door hardware (basically handles) for a local architect couple who were great at marketing. I was pretty well turning these handles for them from the start and they were paying me a rate most turners would be delighted with. Sales started to go really well and new designs were introduced, business was booming and the income was great. After 5 or 6 years I just got sick to the guts of turning these items and found another turner for them to use. It will be interesting to see how long he lasts before the overdose sets in.
Sometimes when your hobby/ interest/passion becomes a job, the fun vanishes.
Still turning, but what I want to. It does make a big difference to me anyway.

Originally Posted by artful bodger

I guess it depends on what sort of turning you are prepared to do...

Point well made, Brad.

I expect there will always be a bit of paid work for bespoked architectural turning, if you don't mind doing that sort of work, but one or two workshops in each state will soak all of that type of work. I know that there are some members of this forum (past and present) who have done some of that architectural work when it comes along as one part of their production.

It is my observation that there are very few craft turners who make a living from just their turning. Every well known craft turner that I know of supplements their income with teaching, demonstrations, tool sales, products & endorsements, and the publication of books and videos.

I understand very well why these top turners need to do this, however, my concern is that these top turners are not passing on their high level skills to those who will become the next generation of top turners. With a few minor exceptions (RR took Glenn Lucas and Benoit Averly under his wing for a bit and likewise Stuart Batty with Ashley Harwood), they are spending their time teaching/entertaining hobbyists who for the most part are of retirement age and who will never get to the high level of skill required to pass that on. Of course, there will be exceptions to that, but they are/will be few and far between.

My concern is, where is the next generation of top turners to come from?

And, if craft turning sales are in decline, does it really matter anyway?

Will we all become hobby turners and hobby turners teaching other hobby turners?

Perhaps not the very worst of outcomes!

Whatever with that, I expect turning as a hobby will continue to thrive at least until the bulk of us baby boomers have passed through.

Anyway, as we know from this forum, hobby woodturners are a nice bunch to spend time with and who cares if we don't know we could be doing it much better...

I wouldn't say craft turning is going downhill.

Its just taken a different turn which honestly i don't necessarily agree with. I'm definitely one that appreciates simple but well crafted items. However alot of turners i see on Youtube/instagram have started going down the route of segmented turnings or epoxy/wood turnings. Granted that most turnings making these are not the greats you mentioned, but to me this is a sign that "traditional" wood turnings are no longer appealing to the general market and are now seeking things that are "unique" and stand out rather than something that is displayed quietly in the corner.

Can I suggest a few things for when I'm in need of a FLOOD OF WORK?

(seriously, these literally pour the work in)

First, I make up (or refresh) My Pitch. There is a scene in Schindlers List (the movie) where the proprietor writes up a lovely letter to each military commander and ASKS FOR THE BUSINESS. I do this. It works, so well that I barely need to put any effort in.

-- Jewellery stores
-- Retail operations with displays
-- Architects
-- Shop fitting, display and retail design companies (usually small staff, but their turnovers are mighty)
-- Listed companies

If you are going to rely on retailing directly, you'll find it a lot harder. Etsy and galleries look attractive, but ultimately they are subject to the same whims of those above - just a different master. But you get only one sale at a time.

You will loose some of your creative flexibility, that's for certain, for the above will invariably know what they want, BUT will not know how to (either) get it done or the limitations of the project/materials/process. So there is some education there. They will always ask and once they ask, they are yours.

BUT (second but!) once they have "trained you" you are theirs forever. They are loathe to let go and will keep handing you jobs (and including you in quotes) year after year, even if they appear to go away for a while (or a long while).

They are not without effort. In the case of listed companies, they can be harder to penetrate (they are opaque), but a few well worded and targeted emails will get you pointed quick smart into the right places/people. The person sending you on also lends gravitas and an invitation to speak to the next person. I've had scenarios where people out of the blue have rung me up and asked me to do work as "I was their companies creative woodworker".

Keep an accurate pocket book journal for notes while you are out.

PITCH and ASK.

It works.

Srry to hear that mate. Hopefully things do pick up for you. Hard times atm with all this covid crap and all.

I’m not a turner, well not by your standards. I do turn stuff to turn a buck or for use in jigs and furniture.

I have a couple of galleries selling mostly utilitarian objects, functional things. I also sell online. My export sales are down 95% yoy. What I do is my living. A small living.

A customer who I was making picture frame mouldings for has been very quiet since January. Last year I was doing $1500 - $2000 with her every second month. Gone. It looks like she is going to scale back to virtually nothing. I was supplying a gift basket/ hamper seller with about 100 soft cheese knives every couple of months. She is quiet as well. I had a customer in Singapore that was buying packs of two pairs of chopsticks and selling them in her pop up shops. 100 packs of 2 pair at a time, every couple of months. Gone. Did you know I am probably Australia’s biggest exporter of handmade chopsticks into the Asian market? Well I was till Covid.

Upside. I’ve picked up a bit of production work for something that will drive me mad in no time. Closed eye work I call it. Beggars can’t be choosers. I’ve also picked up some work with a prestige builder supplying kitchen bench tops, mobile ladders, trims, gate leg tables and a range of other products for a business he is growing.

All of the premium markets/ fairs that I would usually do just haven’t happened and the ones that were planned between now and Christmas are either not happening or are doing an online version.

Things are crook in Tullarook. But, I’m luckier than most. I have no debt, I have cash to tide me over if need be and I have a good accountant.

i need to spend some time to get my pitch right for one of my products and get the thing into a few more than the 6 or so outlets that carry it now. I also need to follow up on a couple of bits of bait I’ve thrown out recently.

keep safe out there folks.
Try to stay positive.
best
B