Thread: Making Skipping Rope Handles

Originally Posted by Bruce White

Keep making them Brendon. Not all of us follow convention. I work on the principle that if it works for me (and I know I use some tools for purposes not intended) and I do it in as safe a manner as I can, it is right (for me).

We can all learn from others, even if the lesson only confirms that the different way we do it is right for us. Keep smiling!

Sorry Bruce, but this was about safety for beginners watching not the techniques.

Originally Posted by

Sorry Bruce, but this was about safety for beginners watching not the techniques.

Personally I like the video.

I look at it from a perspective on what can be achieved.

Originally Posted by wheelinround

Dave you've been turning now for 3 or 4 years surely the blokes at Western and more recently Vic Turn fests have brought you out of the Apprentice mode by now. Safety is always paramount but Brendan's Skew use is something I was taught at school in year 10, back then spindle gouges were not around in the forms they are today.

So what would you have used to do that until they came into being???????

Isn't this the same use of a skew you use to tapper the end of pen blanks to bushes????

Spindle gouges have been around since at least 1680. http://www.historicgames.com/lathes/tools.html

Well , I might just concede you are right on some of the points you have made. I acknowledge I may have some responsibility to demonstrate safe techniques and if I don't, then I should provide some caveat/disclaimer at the beginning of the video. To this end I have added such a paragraph to the synopsis of this video.

However, I don't agree with your assertion that my use of the skew was dangerous and you seem to have ignored some of my in-text responses, particularly the point about the " IFs " in woodturning instruction.

You assert that two of my techniques are "perfectly acceptable/legitimate" practises/techniques but ignore the big IFs.
E.g. using the template with the parting tool to size the different diameters is a "perfectly acceptable practise" according to you. I agree. But, IF the corners of the template aren't rounded over, a sharp parting tool isn't used with a peeling action and the width of the PT isn't wider than the template then this is probably one of the most dangerous things I could've done. The result, a template catching or jamming in the wood.

THere's always IF's with any woodturning and I mention this because you seemed to be selective in choosing when you wanted to use this word. I quote: "If the angle is not presented correctly..." but then you later say the use of the template is perfectly acceptable without any IFs.

And to explain all these IFs within the 15mins allowed on YouTube would probably have been difficult. But I will be more careful next time. I am grateful for this discussion because it means that I am getting feedback that I can use to make better videos, which I plan to do. In fact I'm off to do one now.

Originally Posted by brendan stemp

Well , I might just concede you are right on some of the points you have made. I acknowledge I may have some responsibility to demonstrate safe techniques and if I don't, then I should provide some caveat/disclaimer at the beginning of the video. To this end I have added such a paragraph to the synopsis of this video.

However, I don't agree with your assertion that my use of the skew was dangerous and you seem to have ignored some of my in-text responses, particularly the point about the " IFs " in woodturning instruction.

You assert that two of my techniques are "perfectly acceptable/legitimate" practises/techniques but ignore the big IFs.
E.g. using the template with the parting tool to size the different diameters is a "perfectly acceptable practise" according to you. I agree. But, IF the corners of the template aren't rounded over, a sharp parting tool isn't used with a peeling action and the width of the PT isn't wider than the template then this is probably one of the most dangerous things I could've done. The result, a template catching or jamming in the wood.

THere's always IF's with any woodturning and I mention this because you seemed to be selective in choosing when you wanted to use this word. I quote: "If the angle is not presented correctly..." but then you later say the use of the template is perfectly acceptable without any IFs.

And to explain all these IFs within the 15mins allowed on YouTube would probably have been difficult. But I will be more careful next time. I am grateful for this discussion because it means that I am getting feedback that I can use to make better videos, which I plan to do. In fact I'm off to do one now.

Brendan. I was more concerned about the message being put across to people about the use of the skew in that manner to rough down.

Had you wanted a complete safety critique I would have elaborated further.

As for using a narrow parting tool with a template or callipers there is a member here very well versed in what happens. He nearly parted the timber off.

Originally Posted by brendan stemp

...... The problem is with this way of using the skew the fulcrum point is not in line with the point the cutting edge contacts the timber so there is a tendency for the skew to roll into the timber and create the circumstance for a catch. I will be in England in May this year so perhaps we can catch up and talk about it more......

Brendan I applaud you for having a go & putting yourself out there. Generating any discussion on techniques & safety is good discussion - even if only to highlight that there are options, some of which greatly reduce or eliminate hazards / risk.

As a general comment I get concerned about those who wish to demonstrate or to post clips, and what they show. Sure it’s up to the viewer to sort thru the average to find the good stuff, what’s safe what’s not for them selves. I firmly believe however that demonstrators who post stuff to an open audience (i.e. You Tube etc) have a duty to present techniques that do not rely upon above average tool skills; or a reasonable degree of awareness of the hazards; or require a significant level of attention and / or skill to reduce risk. Unless the demonstrator highlights the hazards, these are things many turners may not understand yet in their turning journey. A moment of inattention, or not realising just how important sound stock is, or how little margin for error there is in tool presentation, or deviation from the demonstrated “process”, may lead to a quite dangerous situation or be very interesting to say the least for inexperienced turners. As for the tool techniques you use, and hot changing blanks, these were common enough high volume production turning practices when there were only o/h belt driven lathes and are still used by some skilled production spindle turners even today.

May I offer a suggestion that hand holding a work piece on the drill press and the use of the wrench to hold the work piece on the lathe might work OK for you however they aren’t the safest way of performing those tasks for others. The addition of a quick ratchet clamp on the jig is an easily made & significant improvement. As sized stock is being used and with multiple blanks in a small to medium production run setting up a jig with the use of a “sled” on the lathe ala Ken Wraight on p57 in the January Australian Woodworker would reduce the production steps. Both are much safer options and greatly reduce hazards & risk in the drilling operations. Another option would be to consider a design change to the handle so that a shallower wide hole was required and a longer narrow hole to compensate. It’s always a trade off, weight vs function vs cost of materials (rope?) vs production time / labour & balancing risk in production work. However safety should always be paramount.

I’m not a fan of peeling cuts on square stock so personally my tool preference would be to use the wing of a 1” or 1 ¼” traditional grind spindle roughing gouge (maybe a continental gouge or a bedan) for the bulk of the waste removal & shaping including the shallow wide cove and a 1” skew to refine the finish, and the parting tool & template (or callipers) for sizing, and maybe some sandpaper.

Good work, hope we see more from you. I’m confident that you will take the constructive aspects of this discussion and apply them to produce safer clips, because we need plenty more “good” examples out there and yours are amongst the better produced ones.

Ok well it's taken me a day to two to reply as I had to pick my words and my wording befor I replyed, and it may have been Sean as rude if I did not reply to a question I'd been asked my Brendan

I'd first like to say sorry Brendan if you were thinking I was haveing a go at you I was not, I was just asking questions for with out questions and answers or minds cannot grow.

My asking if you were now a hobby turner was in some ways not as it came across as I know what you do as a job, it was se what's as a bit of cheek that did not come across that way as you had said that the woodcut NRS was a good tool for hobby turners, and you were using one, that's all it was

After picking up bad habits off other woodturners it has taken me sometime to get out of them
anyone who has spent time with me knows I have a OCD about 2 things
1 is safety and how it comes across when you show someone something.
2 is I like things to be clean ( I'm told still can't find things in his shop after my trip in September )

I may not seem that smart at times but I know there's a lot more to me then most people think,
I can see something and understand how and why it works that's why I had asked you Brendan why not a spindle gouge and a roughing gouge that's all it was ment by the question

I worked out along time ago woodturning is in someways monkey see monkey do
And if some is new to woodturning they may do the wrong thing with out knowing that's all

Ray as I had talked to you in the past about safety and safety in clubs And bad habits that are past on in clubs Is a big part of why I don't have a lot to do with clubs

turnaround down under, U turn, Q turn, are all open to the public to join in and turn my filling out the paperwork and paying the fee there is know handshake that has to be known no dance that has to be lured

the forum and YouTube is another way to get feedback it in know way is a dig at you Brendan its just feedback that is all,

oh just on that note after seeing your NRS at U Turn I got around to getting one last week it's a good tool leves a good finish, but on pine is another thing

And like I said in my first post good to see you getting woodturning out of the dark ages and on to YouTube

My two comments on this discussion.

1. The issue of safety warnings on a you tube video for a beginner turner. I thought there was adequate explanation that this was done by a professional turner and how he does it. Sure there could have been more warnings but to what extent do we have to go. Do we let the nanny state of mind stop people making things because some fool may try to copy a difficult procedure. I hope not.


2. The other is the use of a modified skew to rough down a small blank instead of a roughing gauge. I can not see the difference in using the roughing gauge, skew or bedan in this manner in the hands of a good turner. I too have used all three in that manner to save time and the only difference is in the quality of finish. So if Brendan gets a good enough finish and saves time there is no problem. I don't see there is a safety issue there for a good turner, as to a non good turner see point 1.

Keep it up Brendan.


Peter.

In the hope the final word on this matter can be had I'd like to say this:

I have finally settled down and am calm enough to reflect on this whole matter which for me was about being criticised for demonstrating un-safe techniques. My initial reaction was along the lines of "well bugger you, I have made the effort to provide some information and entertainment (perhaps) and all I get from some is petty criticism."

I don't feel that way now. In fact I look at the criticism as being constructive (thanks Russell) and that in a way it was complimentary. Complimentary because there are some out there that obviously appreciate what I am putting up on YT and think my advise and demonstrations are worthwhile, so much so they are prepared to take the time to offer me some feedback.

I have taken this on board and hopefully what I do in the future reflects this feedback. I still don't agree with some of the assertions that some of my techniques were dangerous but I suppose this boils down to what we mean by dangerous. Is a small piece of wood flying off the lathe dangerous to a turner wearing a facemask? This is what Sturdee was getting at and I agree with his sentiments. I am reminded of the story a friend of mine was recently conveying. He does some maintenance work in a mine and told me that the beanies they wear on site in cold weather, under their hard hats have to be specially made with the seams sewn flat. This is so the seams wont cause a head injury if something falls on them. I do wonder about this nanny state sometimes.

And last of all, Dave, you have absolutely no reason to apologise. I understand too well the difficulties you have with expressing yourself in writing (the teacher in me has me correcting all your grammatical and spelling errors all the time) and I know how the sentiment of what is been written is often lost in the translation. But given these difficulties you still contribute to the forum and obviously are keen to learn. Yeah, you did get me a little worked up, but that's really no fault of yours.

Safe turning and subscribe to my You Tube channel to see if I get it right next time. Yes there will be a next time.