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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    120

    Default slow speed grinder

    Hi all,

    i have been dabbling with my lathe using carbide tools - lots of fun making pens etc - but am thinking of getting into more traditional tools to turn bowls etc.

    what has put me off is the sharpening stuff.

    that said i am thinking of pressing the button on a 200mm slow speed grinder - by no means are my pockets very deep here.

    which of the following would people recommend (from the usual suppliers)?

    Carbatec - Carbatec 750W (1HP) 200mm Low Speed Bench Grinder | Carbatec - currently $254 - 750W

    Timbecon - https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood...-bench-grinder - currently $239 - 375W induction motor (4 pole - apparently this is good??)

    Hare + Forbes - doesnt seem to offer a slow speed grinder...

    i am thinking of getting a basic HSS set to complement my carbides - then fleshing it out with the ones that i use a lot - (same as i did with my router blades)

    what does the brains trust think?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bundaberg
    Age
    52
    Posts
    3,078

    Default

    I recently bought the Timbecon one to use with a Tormek adaptor on the RH wheel and an aftermarket grinder rest on the LH one. What really sold it to me was that it came with two white wheels (the RH one being 40mm wide) so I wouldnít have to buy those as well, but the fact it was on sale and that weekend was free shipping so only costing $215 sealed the deal!

    I havenít actually got it set up yet so I canít comment on the performance under load; all Iíve done is spin it up to make sure it worked. What I can say is that out of the box the wheels are not as balanced as I would like; both wheels have some wobble with the LH one being the worst. Iím hoping I can simply remount them and get them in true without having to rely too heavily on dressing tools but if I have to carve them up a bit then so be it.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    4,311

    Default

    Why a slow speed grinder it is a new fashion, I have been wood turning for 45+years ( 5yrs as business) as have may others never had the need for slow speed grinder.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Perth WA Australia
    Posts
    735

    Default

    I don't have either of those machines, but do have an older 1hp full speed grinder. The left wheel is white oxide wheel right a CBN wheel. left on its own it takes some time for it to get up to speed, so i end up giving it a push before i turn it on to reduce the load on the machine. My point, is if i was to replace my grinder with one of the above models i'd go with the 1hp Carbatec unit.

    Having said that if you're not planning on upgrading the wheels, the Timbecon unit with the wider wheel would be a good bet, but with either machine set aside some funds to upgrade the tool rests. I have the Tormek BGM-100 which is excellent if you sharpen an array of tools/knifes etc, but gets expensive once you start factoring the various jigs.

    Also like China said slow speed are a new thing and i'm sure they're great, but there is nothing wrong with full speed grinder either once you get used to the machine.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hangfire View Post
    Hi all,

    i have been dabbling with my lathe using carbide tools - lots of fun making pens etc - but am thinking of getting into more traditional tools to turn bowls etc.

    what has put me off is the sharpening stuff.

    that said i am thinking of pressing the button on a 200mm slow speed grinder - by no means are my pockets very deep here.

    which of the following would people recommend (from the usual suppliers)?

    Carbatec - Carbatec 750W (1HP) 200mm Low Speed Bench Grinder | Carbatec - currently $254 - 750W

    Timbecon - https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood...-bench-grinder - currently $239 - 375W induction motor (4 pole - apparently this is good??)

    Hare + Forbes - doesnt seem to offer a slow speed grinder...

    i am thinking of getting a basic HSS set to complement my carbides - then fleshing it out with the ones that i use a lot - (same as i did with my router blades)

    what does the brains trust think?
    You do not need a slow speed grinder for lathe chisels, which are either M2 or M4 steel. The slow speed grinder is recommended for bench chisels and plane blades, which use steel that is vulnerable to heat.

    I would get a standard speed 8" grinder. Cheaper and better for your purpose. Use CBN wheels to get the best performance.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,404

    Default

    +1 for a normal speed grinder and CBN wheels

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Geelong, Victoria
    Posts
    214

    Default

    Yes spend the money on a CBN wheel. The CBN generates a lot less heat and is easier to use. Expensive but very good.
    Bruce

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moonbi nsw Aus
    Age
    68
    Posts
    2,027

    Default

    As an Apprentice Carpenter our Tech teacher (TAFE), when showing us how to use a grinder in order to sharpen tools told us the best place for our fingers during the grinding part was to have the fingers close to the grinding site. He told us to hold the tool tight on the rest and slide left to right using only light cuts to the grinding wheel. Those fingers, he said, were the best temperature sensing instruments around. As soon as you feel the tool heating up dip it in water and go again until you get the desired face on the tool.

    I have used this method ever since (52 years now.....I'm old) and rarely "burn" a tool while grinding. When using turning tools a trip to the grinder is needed regularly depending on the hardness and make up of the timber being used. You NEED to have sharp turning tools!!! I have never used a slow speed grinder but a build up of heat with one would "burn" a tool just the same as a full speed wheel.

    The under lying method in either grinder would be to have a "light" touch to avoid any burning

    This will make you cringe.....we had an exercise to show that we were competent with the tool grinding process. The TAFE store man would issue us with a plane blade that he had just attacked the cutting edge with a Warrington Hammer (OUCH). I think he had great delight in the job. These plane blades would have "dings" 3mm deep and maybe 2 or 3 of them on the cutting edge. It took a while to remove enough metal to get the cutting edge ready for the sharpening stone
    Just do it!

    Kind regards Rod

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    2,108

    Default

    Agree with normal speed grinder (2800RPM) plus CBN wheels. However, there's nothing new about slow speed grinders. They are just four pole motors and have been around for decades. But with the reduced heat generated by CBN wheels they lose their advantage.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    AU
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    I recently bought the Timbecon one to use with a Tormek adaptor on the RH wheel and an aftermarket grinder rest on the LH one. What really sold it to me was that it came with two white wheels (the RH one being 40mm wide) so I wouldnít have to buy those as well, but the fact it was on sale and that weekend was free shipping so only costing $215 sealed the deal!

    I havenít actually got it set up yet so I canít comment on the performance under load; all Iíve done is spin it up to make sure it worked. What I can say is that out of the box the wheels are not as balanced as I would like; both wheels have some wobble with the LH one being the worst. Iím hoping I can simply remount them and get them in true without having to rely too heavily on dressing tools but if I have to carve them up a bit then so be it.
    Funny, I bought one recently as well, and I'm thinking about taking it back because there is significant wobble. At the 40mm wheel, about 0.15mm front to back, and 0.4mm side to side.
    Just not sure about sharpening where the wheel doesn't constantly touch the tool.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Bris
    Posts
    701

    Default

    The consensus seems to be to get a normal-speed grinder with a CBN wheel. I'm going to go against the grain but keep in mind that the following advice is coming from a relatively inexperienced woodworker so take it with a grain of salt.

    If there's even the remotest of chances that you'll be using the grinder to sharpen non-HSS tools (e.g. bench chisels, plane irons, etc), I recommend getting a slow-speed grinder with CBN wheels. I've just been restoring a couple of antique planes and I've managed to change the colour on the tip of one of the original irons using my VicMarc CBN grinding (slow) station. The plane blades are quite thin especially at the tip and it didn't take long to overheat it. And if you are going to use it for bench chisels and plane blades/chip breakers/lever caps, I would advise choosing the VicMarc CBN wheels over the other brands because their sides have a 40mm CBN band that can be used to give a flat grind and also to roughly flatten the backs of plane blades and chisels (e.g. removing bellies or rust pits). That's my 2cents.



    Cheers,
    Mike

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Queensland
    Posts
    31

    Default

    I have also purchased the Sherwood (Timbecon) slow speed grinder recently. I also has a wobble in the wheels. Once I dressed the wheels they are running true. I have sharpened a few of my HSS lathe tools and have been happy with the results so far. Still fairly new though.

    I also agonised over the regular speed and CBN, this ended up cheaper for me and works out of the box. I figure I could upgrade one of the wheels to a CBN at some stage of I end up using the lathe to an extent that it justifies the extra money.

    Also a very new turner, so keep that in mind.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    2,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KahoyKutter View Post
    The consensus seems to be to get a normal-speed grinder with a CBN wheel. I'm going to go against the grain…
    Fair enough. Certainly won’t hurt. I have the Vicmarc CBN wheel with the 40mm flat band and I don’t think I’ve turned anything blue yet.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Oberon, NSW
    Age
    62
    Posts
    13,155

    Default

    I wouldn't bother with a slow-speed grinder for turning tools, but they can be very handy for other bench tools. Bench tools need to be sharp but turning tools lose the majority of their sharpness on first contact with the wood. Getting the bevel angles right is more important as they're what determines how long what's left of the 'edge' will last, giving you a longer cut time.

    Sharpening turning chisels is all about lots of quick trips back to the grinder for light, quick touch-ups so you're still cutting and not grinding the wood away.

    Shaping them is a different matter. ie. changing the profile or bevel angle to a significant degree. Then a slow-wheel is handy.

    Appropriate tool for the appropriate job.

    For HSS turning chisels all you need is a normal grinder and AlOx wheel. It's bloody hard to blue HSS. Good to learn the light touch on. Buy a batter quality wheel as and when you can afford, but AlOX is cheap and effective.

    For old Carbon Steel turning chisels (which are very easily blued but often hold a better edge) I'd recommend a better wheel (perhaps CBN) but same grinder. And never, ever dip it in water during grinding. Put it on a block of metal or blow on it to cool it off if you feel the need; it won't take any longer to cool down than it did to heat up.

    FWIW, I don't use Tungsten Carbide tools, except when I'm roughing out large pieces and speed's more important than quality of cut. I don't blunt enough tips in a year that there's any economics to my investing in sharpening 'em, so I can't offer advice there.

    But yeah... it's a good idea to buy a good set of HSS tools, even if only so you can do cuts a TC won't. Don't buy too cheap though, as steel quality drops off quickly at the lower prices.
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

    - Andy Mc

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,404

    Default

    To touch up carbide a 6" diamond coated wheel can be purchase for about $10 and attached to the same spindle as an 8" wheel like this.
    The grinder is a 240V 3Phase 1HP running on a VFD from a 240V Single Phase GPO.
    TP2.jpg

    I use it mainly to sharpen TIG welder tips but it comes in handy for touching up carbide tips for the MW lathe. I've also use it to shape glass. I replaced the side mirror of our Subaru by cutting a piece of mirror glass to rough shape and then rounding it off using this wheel and some water as a lube. Of course the mirror did not have the wide angle view of the standard mirror but it was good enough to enable us to sell it.

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