Thread: Spindle rouging gouge, Woodcut jig thingy

I reckon you're spending too much time grinding the sides - I like to keep the line between the point and the high end as a straight line or slightly convex. Might be just the photos, but that edge looks concave to me which could get nasty when you're doing clean up cuts (shear scraping)

Originally Posted by TTIT

I reckon you're spending too much time grinding the sides - I like to keep the line between the point and the high end as a straight line or slightly convex. Might be just the photos, but that edge looks concave to me which could get nasty when you're doing clean up cuts (shear scraping)

But that is dictated by the jig, (Spending too much on the sides).
Unless I’ve set the jig up wrong, which I suspect could be the reason.

Cheers Matt.

To me that looks like bowl gouge territory. A spindle gouge has slightly curved sides and less bevel angle. Roughing gouge is basically strait across. Perhaps you could gently round the corners but there is no real need. I tried jigs years ago and never clicked. Gave up in disgust. Went back to an angled rest on a regular bench grinder. I am old enough to be old fashioned.
Regards
John

I'd like to see one more photo, looking straight on at the end of the gouge so we can see the full profile. That can make a HUGE difference.

Originally Posted by orraloon

To me that looks like bowl gouge territory

Agreed. For my spindle gouges, I'm pretty sure I'd use an angle setting of about 5 or 6 with this same type of jig.

(I can't be certain as I prefer freehanding. But when I do use my jigs I let the existing bevel grind dictate the settings. I just don't remember what they are and ain't wandering outside at this time of night to find out! )

Mat, I am assuming the tool you are grinding is a spindle roughing gouge, forged from a flat bar into a "U" shape. Your fourth photo shows part of the handle, would indicate that. If I am correct then the end would be better square across or with a slight camber when viewed fro the top, and have about a 45 degree angle. I agree with TTIT in that it appears that you have ground it to a shape better suited to a bowl gouge. The shape that has evolved in the photo likely happened by starting the grinding process with the tool on its side. I would suggest you start the grind wit the tool on it's back and roll it a little to the left and then to the right, and back to the centre, each time going a little bit further to the left and right.

Hopefully this all makes sense and is of some help.

Jim

---

Hello Matt, as with the learned brethren above, you have discovered that everything in turning has a learning curve. Jigs included.

The traditional grind for SRG is 45, straight across or with slightly relieved wings (My personal favourite, as it reduces the chance of a catch, DAMHIKT). Brendan Stemp, grinds his P&N SRG more like a bowl gouge, but with straight wings, not the concave wings of yous, which, as noted by TITT, can make shear scraping untenable. I do not suggest that route, with the style of SRG you are using, as the tang may not be able to withstand the loading stresses.

(for the purist at home, I know that the sharp corners on the SRG are of use, especially when roughing up to a bolster, but I use a v cut with a skew, rough and then clean up the intersection with the long point of the skew. I am turning for fun, not money.)

Originally Posted by TTIT

I reckon you're spending too much time grinding the sides - I like to keep the line between the point and the high end as a straight line or slightly convex. Might be just the photos, but that edge looks concave to me which could get nasty when you're doing clean up cuts (shear scraping)

+1 here. - Edit - I fully agree with Powerderpost it appears to be more like a Continental gouge to me though.

A concave wing on any gouge is asking for trouble.

As Vern (TTIT) says straight at best, slightly convex is ideal on bowl and spindle gouges. That gives the user many options to use the whole of the cutting edge from nose to wing corners with a range of cuts. Powerderpost has given good guidance on how to solve the issue when grinding.

The convex wings make the nose more "pointy" which for bowl and spindle / detail gouges makes them more "twitchy" and more likely to catch. It also makes it more difficult to transition a cut by rolling the gouge. The tool looses bevel support as the gouge is rolled on its side.

IF it is a spindle roughing gouge the swept back wings are not the typical grind found in common use, but there are some turners who prefer that grind with a convex shape, not concave. It is more commonly found on continental gouges, a flatish, shallow fluted spindle roughing gouge.

Continental gouge - Hamlet Continental Spindle Gouges (timberbits.com)
Spindle Roughing Gouge - Hamlet Spindle Roughing Gouges

Originally Posted by Simplicity

But that is dictated by the jig, (Spending too much on the sides).
Unless I’ve set the jig up wrong, which I suspect could be the reason.

Cheers Matt.

The jig is merely a guide Matt - you're still in charge of how much meat you take off each section and the guide just keeps the angles correct. Having said that, I just assumed we were talking bowl gouges because of the view - as the others said, a look at the profile of the gouge would help clear things up

Wow,

Heaps of responses, an a lot too take in thanks everyone.

My reason for wanting to use the jig was to be able too reinstate a grind after a few hand grinds.

But it does seem I’ve got a few things mucked up, I’ve been turning Pens too long an have forgotten all the other stuff.

For those that asked yes I’m trying to grind a spindle rouging gouge.

An ye I’ve made a complete mess of it.

Has as been pointed out it should be a lot flatter I think.

Cheers Matt.

SRG.jpg

Matt, the cutting edge should be closer to the black line, in the above pic.

Originally Posted by Pat

SRG.jpg

Matt, the cutting edge should be closer to the black line, in the above pic.

Thanks Pat,
That’s what I thought it should be, now I just have to figure out how to make the jig do that.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by powderpost

Mat, I am assuming the tool you are grinding is a spindle roughing gouge, forged from a flat bar into a "U" shape. Your fourth photo shows part of the handle, would indicate that. If I am correct then the end would be better square across or with a slight camber when viewed fro the top, and have about a 45 degree angle. I agree with TTIT in that it appears that you have ground it to a shape better suited to a bowl gouge.

I use the Woodcut jig to sharpen my bowl and spindle gouges.

Spindle roughing gouges I sharpen on a platform.

SRGs are traditionally ground flat across. You don't need a jig for that as the bevel angle will be constant if ground like that. Some of us do have a bit of a sweep back on the wings of our SRGs, but nowhere near as much as you have there. This is my P&N SRG and I wouldn't take the wings back anymore than that. The bevel angle is somewhere between 40° and 45°.

P&N 1&1-4in SRG.jpg

As others have said, the wings on any gouge should never be concave. Straight for the 40/40 grind (also best done on the platform) or slightly convex.

I suggest you use a platform for the SRG (and not the jig) and progressively grind back the nose to at least the profile that Pat suggests.

I find the Woodcut Tru-Grind jig is very good for maintaining the grinds on bowl gouges and I use mine all the time for that.

Matt

BTW, which flute profile do you have on your SRG?

SRG flute styles.jpg

Originally Posted by NeilS

I use the Woodcut jig to sharpen my bowl and spindle gouges.

Spindle roughing gouges I sharpen on a platform.

SRGs are traditionally ground flat across. You don't need a jig for that as the bevel angle will be constant if ground like that. Some of us do have a bit of a sweep back on the wings of our SRGs, but nowhere near as much as you have there. This is my P&N SRG and I wouldn't take the wings back anymore than that. The bevel angle is somewhere between 40° and 45°.

P&N 1&1-4in SRG.jpg

As others have said, the wings on any gouge should never be concave. Straight for the 40/40 grind (also best done on the platform) or slightly convex.

I suggest you use a platform for the SRG (and not the jig) and progressively grind back the nose to at least the profile that Pat suggests.

I find the Woodcut Tru-Grind jig is very good for maintaining the grinds on bowl gouges and I use mine all the time for that.

Thanks Neil,

I’ve gone back too just using the rest for the spindle gouge,
Will post a picture later.

Cheers Matt.